Last post on Dec 06, 2013 at 7:58 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#14783 of 16984 Re: I don't know.... [billyperksii]
Aug 21, 2012 (2:54 pm)
That particular chart source only showed historical TL sales. I'm sure if you Google searched around, you could find something similar for Infiniti and Lexus, as well as BMW and Audi.
If it's any consolation, my old Maxima SE, which was a top seller in the 1990's and won COTY honors in 1995, has pretty much fallen off the ELLPS radar screen for most car shoppers today. I don't have the exact figures handy, but I think the current Maxima is selling at about 15% of the sales volume of my old 1995. Nissan really snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory on that one!
#14784 of 16984 Re: I don't know.... [habitat1]
Aug 21, 2012 (3:43 pm)
It got fat and got a CVT. Pretty much explains it IMO.
#14785 of 16984 Re: I don't know.... [m6user]
Aug 21, 2012 (4:15 pm)
Agreed. And until the most recent design, went fugly as well. The current Maxima doesn't look half bad to me on the outside, but Nissan completely sold it's soul as a "four door sports car" at least a decade ago.
Aug 21, 2012 (4:41 pm)
Is an ELLPS shopper right now. His 2008 A4 3.2 FWD S Line threw a rod at 39,000 miles. Luckily the dealer he had it towed to diagnosed the problem as hydrolock. His insurance company didn't think it was worth footing the $21,000 bill for a new engine, so they are going to total the car.
His top choice is a G37S ('09 or '10 CPO). He's also going to look at some CPO 3ers w/ Sport Pkg. I'll keep you guys updated.
#14788 of 16984 Re: I don't know.... [billyperksii]
Aug 21, 2012 (5:11 pm)
I have gotten INFINITE compliments on my TL, as a matter of fact it turned 3 years old last Friday and I took it to a local garage for a rotation and balance, the service guy asked if it was a new car- he said its really nice.
Speaking as an '05 TL owner, these generations of TLs are like girlfriends. The 04-08 (call her "Julie") is a couple of years older with an absolutely gorgeous face and a decent body. The 4G TL (call her "Flo") is the girl with the killer body but the somewhat doggy face!
I'll keep Julie and you enjoy Flo!
#14789 of 16984 Re: I don't know.... [habitat1]
Aug 21, 2012 (5:14 pm)
If it's any consolation, my old Maxima SE, which was a top seller in the 1990's and won COTY honors in 1995, has pretty much fallen off the ELLPS radar screen for most car shoppers today.
Around 2000 I was driving my A4 2.8 quattro and when I was in for a service call I ended up with a rental Maxima. I thought that it had a great stereo and great power but that the handling and suspension were extremely underwhelming. The back end in particular felt bouncy. But of course I was coming from the A4 with a stick and sport package.
#14790 of 16984 Re: BMW Engine Start\Stop [flightnurse]
Aug 21, 2012 (6:51 pm)
FN......first and foremost, I consider the TL SH AWD to be in somewhat the same general vicinity as the 335i X. However, 335 is faster, handles better, and of course is less expemsive. TL still tugs on the steering wheel a little bit....even in AWD form. Still, for the money, you'd be hard pressed to find a car that mixes all of the attributes of torque vectoring, strong and smooth motor, top notch feature set of the TL SH AWD.
It's cheap to keep, too.
Aug 21, 2012 (9:31 pm)
What price point does one have to hit to be considered to be ELLPS?
What equipment does a car need to be considered a ELLPS?
What is the balance between Luxury and Sport? All this talk about the TL SH AWD being just as good as S4 and 335iX, so is the only TL that can be considered a ELLPS?
#14792 of 16984 Re: I don't know.... [sweendogy]
Aug 22, 2012 (3:39 am)
Thanks for posting that data source - it is a great one to look through.
However, not sure how you concluded that the TL's minor facelift has made much of a difference in sales? The YTD numbers are up slightly (12% +/-) through July 2012 vs. 2011, but they are also now giving away the car with up to $9,000 discounts. And the slight YTD bump is still nowhere near the sales volume of the worst/last year of the previous model.
Here's the grim statistical truth about the Acura TL:
2004-2006 Total US Sales: 227,461 (this is FWD only car, 1st 3 years after 2004 redesign. Average annual = 75,820. Up 37% from previous model, which still averaged 58k units last two years of it's "aged" design")
2009-2011 Total US Sales: 98,906 (this in spite of now offering both FWD, AWD models with 2 different engines. Average annual 32,969; down 57% from previous model and down over 25,000 average sales from last two years of 2002-2003 model)
You can't look at this in any way, shape or form (literally) and not call the 2009 Acura redesign a total screw up from a business perspective. Acura pumped tons of money into producing two drivetrains, two engine variants of the TL and sales ended up getting cut by well more than half thanks to going to Pontiac for aesthetic advice and to raid their chrome stockpile.
Even Porsche, for all of their focus on engineering prowess, realizes that looks do matter and has continued to refine the classic 911 style. But Acura was too smart for their own good, threw the 2004-2008 exterior in the trash and look what it got them.