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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16087 messages,  Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1463 of 1610

#14614 of 16087 Re: Price creep [nyccarguy] by habitat1

Aug 05, 2012 (8:40 pm)

Replying to: nyccarguy (Aug 05, 2012 8:04 pm)
Thanks, but no condolences needed. I had a good 5 1/2 years and 30k miles with the 911 and my daughters couldn't fit in the back seat anymore. But if the bank account recovers in time from our upcoming X5 Diesel purchase, I could possibly see a new Cayman in my garage sometime next spring.
 
Regarding the TL vs. BMW, my own 2004 TL 6-speed has Brembo brakes standard. I believe the 2012 TL SH-AWD 6-speed manual does as well. In my car, they are great, and way, way better than the crappy brakes on our MDX or the automatic TL's I was given as service loaners. My 2004 is FWD, so it has all of those performance pitfalls, but is still a reasonably fun car.
 
I would never seriously consider or recommend an automatic or FWD TL over a BMW. The 6-speed manual TL-SHAWD might be worth a test drive for you to make the call yourself. Interestingly, I was NOT very favorably impressed with 2011/2012 535i 6-speed manuals. I wasn't seriously in the market, but when we were shopping for the X5, was being tempted by some great deals. But after a few test drives, I concluded that the new 5 series felt heavy and a bit dull compared to the older models or the (outgoing) 3 series.

#14615 of 16087 Re: Price creep [m6user] - It was worse back then... [habitat1] by m6user

Aug 05, 2012 (10:26 pm)

Replying to: habitat1 (Aug 05, 2012 7:00 pm)
The general inflation rate will of course affect any price increases in addition to governmental regualtions. I believe the period you mentioned, 1985 to 1995 has substantially more inflation than the period I tracked, 2002/3 to 2012/13.
 
Mortgage rates were in the 9-10% range back in the late eighties. I remember refinancing in 1992 to 7.5%, down from 9.5%. If you consider the "hyper" inflation of the late 70s and early 80s(I can actually remember getting pay raises of over 10% several of those years) car prices may have been catching up somewhat. I believe they lag inflation by a couple of years as manufactures try to hold the line on prices until profit pressures become too great to resist.

#14616 of 16087 Re: Price creep [m6user] - It was worse back then... [habitat1] [dino001] [habitat1] by dino001

Aug 06, 2012 (6:19 am)

Replying to: habitat1 (Aug 05, 2012 8:20 pm)
This is good story. However, in 1969 Mercedes was only making cars that were market positioned equivalent of today's S-class and top of E-class. Model 190 (predecessor of C-class) was introduces somewhere in late 70s or early 80s, don't know exact dates. The ELLPS simply did not exist back then. There was a small BMW and Europe has always had cars like those, but the concept was pretty much unknown in the US. So the bridge was gapped from both sides (cheap cars becoming not so cheap and expensive brands introducing less expensive models)

#14617 of 16087 Re: Price creep [m6user] - It was worse back then... [habitat1] [dino001] [habitat1] [dino001] by habitat1

Aug 06, 2012 (6:56 am)

Replying to: dino001 (Aug 06, 2012 6:19 am)
You are exactly right - and that's the essence of my point. An ELLPS segment that has BMW and Mercedes competing against Japanese and even American cars for the same buyer didn't really exist until about 1995 or later. Prior to that, it was easy. We all knew our place in car society. And now Hyundai is on TV with ads comparing their Genesis to a Panamera S?? Holy cow.

#14618 of 16087 Re: Data point.. [kyfdx] by ivan_99

Aug 06, 2012 (8:11 am)

Replying to: kyfdx (Aug 04, 2012 7:02 am)
So with these numbers...it's actually cheaper now.
 
Inflation is the killer...
 
$38,500 in 2003 is $48,000 now
 
If you use any online inflation calculators you can see similar results:
http://www.coinnews.net/tools/cpi-inflation-calculator/
http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm/
 
You can't print over a trillion dollars without getting hit with inflation...

#14619 of 16087 Re: Data point.. [ivan_99] by dino001

Aug 06, 2012 (8:13 am)

Replying to: ivan_99 (Aug 06, 2012 8:11 am)
The President (and the previous one as well) seem to disagree (or not care)...

#14620 of 16087 Re: Price creep [m6user] - It was worse back then... [habitat1] [dino001] [habitat1] [dino001] by flightnurse

Aug 06, 2012 (9:11 am)

Replying to: dino001 (Aug 06, 2012 6:19 am)
The 190E came state side in 1985.
 
I remember in 1993 looking at the E320 Convertible and thinking 80K is a lot of money.... Today you can get a E350 convertible for the came amount of money.
 
Today an entry level C250 sedan is 35K (base) and will balloon to 43K with a couple of options. My 1987 E190 2.3-16 sportline was $36K new.
 
Just interesting to see how some cars have faired priced wise over the years.

#14621 of 16087 Re: Price creep [m6user] - It was worse back then... [habitat1] [dino001] [habitat1] [dino001] [habitat1] by billyperksii

Aug 06, 2012 (10:10 am)

Replying to: habitat1 (Aug 06, 2012 6:56 am)
Hey look who is back- welcome back buddy, remember those battle we had with my 2003 TL Type S? Well now I have the 2009 SH-AWD.
The new car itch is setting in and its going after the 550 XI but I think I will stick with the TL a couple more years.

#14622 of 16087 Re: Price creep [m6user] - It was worse back then... [habitat1] [dino001] [habitat1] [dino001] [habitat1] [billyperksii] by habitat1

Aug 06, 2012 (4:21 pm)

Replying to: billyperksii (Aug 06, 2012 10:10 am)
Hey Billy,
 
Great to hear from you and I bet you are still as feisty as ever! Weren't we going to meet up on some deserted road and have a showdown between your TL-S and my old Maxima SE 5-speed??
 
So is your TL SH-AWD a stick or an automatic? if it's the latter we can start a new round of digital drag racing with my 2004 TL 6-speed manual. With only 62k miles in 8 years, I'm probably going to keep it for awhile longer and see if I can't sneak another Porsche into my garage next spring.

#14623 of 16087 Re: Price creep [m6user] - It was worse back then... [habitat1] [dino001] [habitat1] [dino001] [habitat1] [billyperksii] [habitat1] by sweendogy

Aug 06, 2012 (4:34 pm)

Replying to: habitat1 (Aug 06, 2012 4:21 pm)
You must of been gone a long while- no one here believes in manual transmissions anymore- - infact they will even try To sell you on a CVT, everyone very old now - good to see one manual is left- and in a great (before the beak) TL.
 
Welcome back- keep the oldschool cooler body tl- wait until Acura cleans it up.
 
Any chance the hosts can clean up the messages titles here- no need for 20 names on a header

Messages Page 1463 of 1610

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