Last post on Dec 06, 2013 at 7:58 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#14597 of 16984 Re: Price creep [m6user]
Aug 03, 2012 (6:39 pm)
The results are unverified, but assuming your research is right, it indeed is quite a spread, which flies into face of commodity inflation thesis. Obviously speaks into strategies of those companies pursue. There can be some one-time factors in play, or some shifting in target markets. As I remember, MB used to be most expensive, Audi least - it may be different now.
BMW may also pursue somewhat different strategy in option vs base pricing. I noticed that the start from high forte, ridiculous prices at the beginning of the model life, but over time they tend to add things as no-cost or deeply discounted packages. For example, my 2012 wagon, last year of its line, had leather free already since 2011, there was additional discount on navigation with premium package ($500) and some of those phone integration electronics (bluetooth) were rolled in as no cost, as well. On the other hand, MB pretty much held its C-class options just the same for all that time. A friend of mine notices (he likes them much more than I) that MB-tex (vinyl surface) is actually dominant in stock, whereas almost no BMWs have leatherette on dealer's lots. I suspect MB did some creative content shuffling to hold the line on base.
#14598 of 16984 Re: Price creep [fedlawman]
Aug 03, 2012 (6:47 pm)
Well, in my book, a $38,000 328i with leatherette seats and 17" wheels is much easier to fathom than a $48,000 328i with Nav, Leather, and all the other frills.
Funny, I exactly got the latter (a little less than $48K MSRP, but not far) and would never consider the former. Absolutely not point for me to get car like BMW with leatherette.
When I look at cars, I ignore strippers and their prices. If I can't afford good stuff, I can't afford the car. Would rather buy loaded model of lower prominence than bottom of line something "aspirational".
#14599 of 16984 Re: Price creep [dino001]
Aug 03, 2012 (7:13 pm)
Funny you say that about MB Text. My best friend's wife had an '09 E350 4Matic. $60K car with MB Text. The MB Text was so good that my friend didn't even notice it until the temps started to heat up. He said his back would sweat on car rides longer than an hour. He called the sales manager that his family deals with & asked him about it. I think mb charged $2000 or $2500 for full leather seats. He said they order what they can w/ mb text because the majority of people would rather have the cheaper lease payment.
Our 2007 X3 had leatherette. I had no problems with it.
The auto mfrs. definitely toy around with standard features. Sunroofs were standard starting in '04 3 series. All of the sudden in (I think) in 2010 sunroof is a $1000 option or part of the premium package. Back in '07, the panorama sunroof was standard on my wife's X3, but an option on my Dad's X5.
My 2011 has the no cost Value Package that gave me standard heated seats, leather, 17" wheels, & an iPod/USB ASAP. My slushbox was a no cost option too.
Fedlawman - I agree with both your line of thinking as well as dino001's. My wife's former 2007 X3 had 4 options, Steptronic (nc), Montego blue metallic paint, heated front seats, Bluetooth, & rear privacy glass & we loved it.
My 2011 328xi has leather, navigation,metallic paint, premium package, Xenon lights...
I'd have to price a stripper out, but I still think it will be too rich for my blood.
#14600 of 16984 Re: Price creep [dino001]
Aug 04, 2012 (4:41 am)
...there was additional discount on navigation with premium package ($500) and some of those phone integration electronics (bluetooth) were rolled in as no cost, as well.
IMHO, this comes from the falling cost of electronics as a whole.
#14601 of 16984 Re: Price creep [nyccarguy]
Aug 04, 2012 (5:02 am)
I'd have to price a stripper out, but I still think it will be too rich for my blood.
It's $37,395 for a base 328i with leatherette and absolutely nothing else. 2.0, RWD, choice of manual or auto.
I think the sales person at the dealership would scratch his head if you came in looking for that.
get the TSX with leather standard and the $1K manual option and save $5K
get the A4 with leather and Quattro and save $4K
get the C250 with auto and save $500
get the G25 with auto and leather and save $3K
get the IS250 with auto and leather and save $1500.
Some folks might be happy with the base BMW setup as what I consider a driver's car and others may want a couple of other features and a few extra bucks in their pocket knowing they weren't going to be driving 9/10ths anyway.
#14602 of 16984 Re: Price creep [robr2]
Aug 04, 2012 (5:17 am)
Possibly, but the price went back up for 2012 sedan. They charge as much as they can, not as much as it costs. Old model, you get discount here and there, new one you pay up.
Aug 04, 2012 (6:02 am)
Our '03 BMW 325i sedan... with every option but NAV, more or less...stickered for $38,500..
I think a comparable 2012 model would be under $46K (of course, you get a turbo-4, instead of a 6-cylinder)..
#14604 of 16984 Re: Price creep [robr2]
Aug 04, 2012 (7:22 am)
If this was true, then the price of the options for the MY 2012 would be the same price, but that wasn't the case.
My 328i and all of the 328i for 2010 and 2011 came with the value package at no cost, leather (any color), Ipod connector. This made the Premium package costing $1750. I know for 2012 the Wagon and Coupe's had no charge leather too. With the price of these cars going up, some options should be standard. With the Wagon, sunroof is standard. Not too sure for 2013.
#14605 of 16984 My 335i "test drive"
Aug 04, 2012 (10:46 am)
Thanks to a nationwide promotion to support the US Olympics Team, yesterday I got a short drive in one of BMW’s new F30 3-Series cars. The invite didn’t specify which model but I figured all they’d have would be 328i models (X-Drive models aren’t in showrooms yet) but I was given a choice and opted for the 335i (nearest equivalent to the ’01 330ci I own.).
The car I got was a Melbourne Red 335i Sport Line four-door with the 8-speed autobox and a black leather interior. The car didn’t have a Monroney sticker and I didn’t ask the price but
I figure it should sticker around $50K.
Except for the color, I thought it was a really good-looking BMW. Although the hood has an odd shape in some photograph it looks fine in the metal. The current BMW reds lack the vibrancy of the old Imola Red and the black made the inside a bit dour IMO. I thought the othe cars on hand in gray or blue were more attractive. The interior was quite roomy for a 3er, pretty close to the size of my E39 Five Series.
I thought the interior styling was too cluttered and I was a bit taken aback by the many options you had to sort thru for suspension, transmission and other settings. It would take at least a couple of weeks to learn all the settings and controls on this car.
The prescribed test route was a short 8 mile circuit on some of the best maintained tertiary two-lanes in the NH Seacoast which is to say it wasn’t much of a test of ride qualities but from what I could tell the car rode very smoothly, giving no hint of being on all-season run-flat tires of very low profiles.
There’s been a lot of concern about the lack of feel from the steering in the new (F10) Fivers. I’m happy to report that the steering on the 335i is just as communicative as you would expect on a Bimmer. The transmission can be manually shifted readily and is well suited to a fast drive on back roads. Brakes and handling were excellent and the stop-start system was almost invisible. You can fell the restart but there’s no unpleasant bump or shudder.
Overall I think the F30 is an excellent all-round car that should be a very hard target for Cadillac, Audi or anyone else to surpass. I certainly would shop it but I do have some reservations. I’ve never driven any car rated at 300HP but I assumed if I did it would be scary-fast. Don’t get me wrong, the turbo-Bimmer is a fast car and will cover ground in a huge hurry but my old 5 liter Mustang (200HP) felt faster when you dropped the hammer to take off from a standstill but then the ‘Stang was very light and had no traction control.
I also thought the ’013 335i lacks the “whee” factor of my E46 Cabrio, it handles very well but just feels heavier and less tossable and less grippy than the old E46.
#14606 of 16984 Re: Price creep [robr2]
Aug 04, 2012 (7:18 pm)
robr2 - I just priced out a 2013 F30 328xi sedan and kept the options to a minimum (Standard Paint, Leatherette, no sunroof). Lighting Package, HK Stereo, & Heated Front Seats. MSRP is $41,670. I know it could be ordered if that's what I really want. What BMW brings to the table as far as the base model goes does impress me. There's also a part of me that thinks like dino001 and says: "You really want a $42,000 BMW with so little options."
I had a TSX, liked it, ditched it after 2 1/2 years for my 2011 328xi. Acura's version of electric power steering wasn't for me.
The A4 is a really nice vehicle, but Audi/VW long term durability scares me.
The C250 seems like a nice car too. I haven't driven one, but right now MB only sells 4Matic C300's with a lackluster V6 instead of the cool, new Turbo 4.
If I were to go with a G, it'd be "go big or go home" G37X. Xenon lights aren't available on the G25X either. I haven't read positive things about Nissan's small V6 as far as performance goes.
I drove an IS250 AWD when it 1st came out in 2006. It had absolutely ZERO pickup. The 4cyl in my former TSX felt better by the seat of my pants.