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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16087 messages,  Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM

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Messages Page 1456 of 1610

#14545 of 16087 Re: Acura TL vs Acura TL [graphicguy] by markcincinnati

Jul 31, 2012 (11:37 am)

Replying to: graphicguy (Jul 31, 2012 7:46 am)
I agree completely with your comments re:Audi S4. I likened the TL SH-AWD Advance 6 speed auto to an S4, but it is S4-lite or S4-like -- I use those words, phrases in an attempt to offer up my impressions as a long-time Audi owner (who has also had 3 BMW's). I don't think most folks would ever cross shop these two cars.
 
I was looking for another A4 Prestige with sport package, etc, but I was also looking to keep the payments UNDER $600 per month. Couldn't do it with the content I wanted in the car. The A4 Prestige content and the TL SH-AWD Advance have similar content. The TL and A4 have similar wheel bases and both are "nice" cars -- with the nod going to the A4 on all counts.
 
If I were forced to keep the TL for 5 more years, I think I could live with that, since the TL refuses to betray its mileage. By this time on my A4 (20K miles) there were "feelable" signs of wear (not tear, just wear) -- which also goes for the 3 BMW's we had. The BMW dealer said to us that BMW's are higher performance machines and they are built to outperform their competition at the cost of needing to be fiddled with, adjusted and tweaked more than the other cars that have lower tolerances and so forth.
 
This proved true with Audis too -- even as they got better and better in terms of reliability. My experience is just another data point: German Cars, Japanese Cars and I assume [hope] American Cars are all reliable (getting stranded in the wrong part of town just doesn't happen in a modern car like we're talking about.) What little disagreement we have or may have is that the German Cars seem to require "lots of little adjustments" to keep them feeling young -- the Japanese Cars, on the other hand, "feel" (at 30,000 miles in the case of my wife's Infiniti and at 20,000 miles in the case of my Acura) unfazed by the passage of so many miles.
 
I'd take an S4 over virtually any of the cars in this class -- if money wasn't an object. Of course an S6 would be, for me, even better. I had an A8 upgraded at the dealer to an S8 suspension that I had them order from Germany -- now that was very nice. Today, however, I'd still prefer the S6 over the S8 even if I were spending "other people's money." The S4 and especially the S6 seem to be great "middle sized" vehicles -- and both are fun to drive. I may have shared this before, but my 1995 S6 remains my favorite car of all times -- not the BEST car I ever had, just the one that recalls the fondest of fond memories.

#14546 of 16087 Re: Acura TL vs Acura TL [robr2] by sweendogy

Jul 31, 2012 (7:27 pm)

Replying to: robr2 (Jul 31, 2012 7:32 am)
Rob2, just because Acura dropped a v6 into the tsx doesn't make it Ellps- first of all they sell less then 10% of all v6 tsxs. Second doesn't the accord offer a v6?
 

#14547 of 16087 Re: Acura TL vs Acura TL [sweendogy] by m6user

Jul 31, 2012 (7:01 pm)

Replying to: sweendogy (Jul 31, 2012 7:27 pm)
"Second doesn't the accord offer a v6?"
 
So does the Altima....what difference does that make?

#14548 of 16087 Re: Acura TL vs Acura TL [m6user] by sweendogy

Jul 31, 2012 (7:29 pm)

Replying to: m6user (Jul 31, 2012 7:01 pm)
"By offering it with a V6 in North America (it's not offered that way in the other markets) was a way to bring it up to ELLP standards although the 4 offers sufficient engine and chassis performance."
 
There you go

#14549 of 16087 Re: Acura TL vs Acura TL [markcincinnati] by graphicguy

Aug 01, 2012 (5:30 am)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Jul 31, 2012 11:37 am)
Mark.....you and I pretty much are violently agreeing.
 
Audi, Acura, Mercedes (every once in awhile) and now BMW...all offer 4 cyl motors in their ELLPS.
 
I test drove an A5. Frankly, that's a mighty nice car. Matter of fact, even though it's down on HP vs BMW's new N20 motor, I'd still prefer it over a new 328i.
 
I'm still trying to wrap my mind around being able to hit the $50K mark with the 328i and a 4 cyl (optioned up). Personally, there are still plenty of new '11 328i cars on the market (BMW cranked production on the '11s knowing the '12s would be initially only a trickle coming out of the factory). I'd jump on one of those with the 6 cyl....save me some money and get something I consider to be superior to the newer model.
 
I know it's next to impossible to get a '12 335i (although you can find old body style coupes on lots, still). And, I don't think they only started producing the '13 335i.
 
GF's S4 is a Premium Plus. Seems loaded up to me. What does the Prestige net you?
 
I don't think an A4 can be optioned up to $50K like the 328i, can it?
 
As you're aware, all loaded up, I think the TL SH AWD Tech is low-mid $40s. I thought you could get a loaded A4 quatro for about the same price?
 
Either way, you have a very nice car which would be a pleasure to drive for the next 10 years, if you so choose.

#14550 of 16087 Prices by markcincinnati

Aug 01, 2012 (7:25 am)

An Audi A4 2.0T Prestige can be cranked up MSRP-wise to more than $50K.
 
An Acura TL SH-AWD Advance (not Tech) plus a la carte options like splash guards and back-up sensors is north of $47K MSRP.
 
The Prestige vs the Advance offers similar content if not similar engine transmission set ups.
 
The way the '12 Acura TL is configured however -- it feels more like the Audi A6 version C6 (the last model before the current body style of the A6.)
 
The BMW 328/AWD ('13) is easy to zoom past $50K, too.
 
The SH-AWD (aka torque vectoring) masks the porkiness of the TL, and the 19" wheels and "sport tuned" suspension yield a TL that is more like an A4-SLine or S4 "lite" -- the A4 currently only offers the "sport differential" on the highest buck flavors which makes the TL the bargain of the bunch (and still an ugly duckling.)
 
I priced out a new X1 and even got that to go north of $50K (and that was with the 4cyclinder).
 
There's a phrase I have grown up with: "you can pay too little, but you really won't pay too much -- if you get what you want, rather than settling."
 
Oddly, with the TL at $547 per month, I feel a bit like Goldilocks, "It's just right." I can say this with a straight face since the '09 A4 2.0T Prestige w/sport and ADS was about $120 more per month than the TL.
 
Don't confuse my rationalization as anything but "driving it the way I lived -- at the time I entered into the transaction." I was looking for something that I could live with, feel safe and comfortable with and that had decent performance -- AND was a prudent choice during a crappy economy.
 
Still, however, I think 2014 can't come soon enough (for Acrua at least.) The company seems adrift -- even after the Avenger's movie was supposed to show us that Tony Stark used to drive Audis and now he drives Acura's.
 
Pull the other one.

#14551 of 16087 Re: Prices [markcincinnati] by billyperksii

Aug 01, 2012 (7:42 am)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Aug 01, 2012 7:25 am)
Mark-What are the signs of a warped rotor?
Is it the vibration on hard stops?
I think mines are warped but I just wanted to make sure.
The dealer wants $220 (this is an online discount), the normal is $320.
Does that sound correct?

#14552 of 16087 Re: Acura TL vs Acura TL [sweendogy] by robr2

Aug 01, 2012 (7:43 am)

Replying to: sweendogy (Jul 31, 2012 7:27 pm)
Rob2, just because Acura dropped a v6 into the tsx doesn't make it Ellps- first of all they sell less then 10% of all v6 tsxs. Second doesn't the accord offer a v6?
 
My point is that the consumers in this market slice have typically sneered at anything that didn't offer a 6.
 
Now that the great propellered one has deemed 4's worthy in the American market, perhaps that requirement will disappear.

#14553 of 16087 Re: Prices [billyperksii] by graphicguy

Aug 01, 2012 (10:05 am)

Replying to: billyperksii (Aug 01, 2012 7:42 am)
billy...not Mark. But, what you describe sounds like warped rotors to me. They can usually turn the rotors once. So, ask them to do that, first.

#14554 of 16087 Re: Prices [markcincinnati] by graphicguy

Aug 01, 2012 (10:12 am)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Aug 01, 2012 7:25 am)
Mark....I'm not a lessee/payment buyer. So, the monthly payments have no relevance on my end. But, from what I understand, BMW subsidizes their leases pretty heavily. So, that's one way of allaying their cost.
 
I also didn't know you could get an A4 into the $50K range. New lesson learned. Personally, if I were going to option out an A4 into that price range, I'd go ahead and move right on into an S4.
 
Speaking of 4 cyl lux/performance cars, I just read a C&D article stating that Audi is upgrading their current 2.0 engine. Expect it to come in at around that 240 HP mark (not sure about ft/lb ratings) in the A4.

Messages Page 1456 of 1610

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