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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16087 messages,  Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1392 of 1610

#13904 of 16087 Brief (for me) Update by markcincinnati

May 09, 2012 (2:25 pm)

I have now reached 15,000 miles on my 2012 Acura TL Advance SH-AWD. I have had two oil changes and at the second change the SH-AWD "fluid" was changed (very expensive.) The tires have been rotated twice.
 
I keep the tires cold inflated to: front 37, rear 35. I decided to stick with the somewhat crappy OEM tires that came with the car, since they are all-season UHP's and I wanted to go through winter (very light even for Cincinnati) with the OEM's kind of to allow me to "testify" about the OEM selection.
 
I added 4 splash guards and the backup sensors -- otherwise the thing is bone stock.
 
I bring my own oil -- Mobil 1 -- for the changes, and all service has been performed by the dealer, Lindsay Acura, Columbus, OH.
 
This is one boring car from a service perspective. It did, however, seem peppier after the second oil and "fluid" change -- in that respect it reminded me somewhat of my experience with Audi's -- they feel more powerful at 5,000 and again at 10,000 miles.
 
I am not used to paying for service (Audi and BMW spoiled me in that regard) -- so $230 oil changes including tire rotations are painful. But in fairness, the reason for the expense on the last one was the SH-AWD fluid, which won't be changed again for a long time.
 
This car seems almost freakishly unfazed by miles and time. There are NO rattles, no wear and tear (inside or out) tells that could give away the car's age (in miles.) Most of my German cars -- my 2005 Audi A6 3.2 quattro being the ONLY exception -- have always started to either feel or (upon examination) show their age by this point.
 
The last two BMW's developed rattles in a similar time / miles situation. The Audi seemed to be a dirt magnet -- and I wash my cars twice weekly (including vacuuming the interiors), so it is not due to some change in my auto-hygene regimen that I tell you the Acura at 15,000 miles feels totally new, looks new, drives new, etc etc. The only difference is it gets somewhat better mileage now and it has a bit more pep in its step.
 
Yet the TL remains a compromise car -- it is "in the ballpark" with the Germans I have been used to (and by in the ballpark, I mean broadly: features, content, power, price, etc.) but it is about 9/10ths. Now considering it's VALUE quotient, perhaps it is more than 9/10ths; but, when I push it hard through a curvy back road it makes me think, "this is soooo close, but just not quite there." Of course my lease payments are $100 per month less than the outgoing 2009 A4 2.0T quattro sport and the Acura still feels the same as it did (as noted above) the day I got it. The Audi, on the other hand, at 15,000 miles had already gone through a set of tires (and very expensive ones at that) and just seemed a bit more worn.
 
I have come to a conclusion, perhaps incorrectly so, that like the hyper expensive tires that came with the A4 and pooped out young (they turned to powder in an effort to make the car feel as if it were on rails), perhaps the German cars perform better for a shorter period of time. The Japanese -- perhaps -- don't perform as well from the get go, but they "take a lickin' and keep on tickin'" with minimal fuss and care.
 
The sales manager of the Acura store came from an Audi store and he remarked that the Germans make the best performing cars, period, but that they require the owner to take much more of an active role in maintaining that ultra high performance standard.
 
I have a Sheltie -- very low strung, very low maintenance (groomed about every 8 weeks and that's it) -- perhaps the Sheltie analogous to a Japanese ELLPS or LPS car. Now, then, there are some other breeds which seem to be high maintenance, but win a lot more "best in show" awards -- perhaps the German cars are like a high strung high maintenance dog breed.
 
Beats me -- the Acura certainly has been superior at one thing, though: not aging.

#13905 of 16087 Re: Brief (for me) Update [markcincinnati] by kyfdx HOST

May 09, 2012 (4:53 pm)

Replying to: markcincinnati (May 09, 2012 2:25 pm)
Why does markcincinnati get his car serviced in Columbus?

#13906 of 16087 Re: Brief (for me) Update [markcincinnati] by carnaught

May 09, 2012 (5:42 pm)

Replying to: markcincinnati (May 09, 2012 2:25 pm)
Mark: Thanks for the report. Happy to hear your Acura is not showing the interior wear and rattle problems I had with my previous generation TL and my two other Acuras.

#13907 of 16087 Re: Brief (for me) Update [markcincinnati] by nyccarguy

May 09, 2012 (6:08 pm)

Replying to: markcincinnati (May 09, 2012 2:25 pm)
15,000 miles is LITERALLY nothing for a Honda Product (nor should it be for ANY CAR at this price point). My 10 year old (146,200 mile) Prelude is extremely well screwed together. I'm still on the original shocks.
 
Thanks for the 15K report. I'm glad you are enjoying the car (the 9/10ths of it anyway;) & the $100 per month in your pocket.
 
You are bringing your own oil & still getting a $231 bill for an oil change? Your dealer seems to charge an awful lot of money.

#13908 of 16087 Re: Brief (for me) Update [nyccarguy] by sweendogy

May 09, 2012 (7:26 pm)

Replying to: nyccarguy (May 09, 2012 6:08 pm)
I've had a car for 30k and I dont think I've spent 231 bux total on oil changes and I use oil the dealer puts in.

#13909 of 16087 Re: Brief (for me) Update [kyfdx] by markcincinnati

May 09, 2012 (7:27 pm)

Replying to: kyfdx (May 09, 2012 4:53 pm)
I bought the car using carwoo.com -- the Columbus dealer gave me a 13% off sticker price.
 
I drive to Columbus twice weekly, and I am always in Columbus on either Saturday or Sunday. The time between cities is 100 minutes.
 
When the change oil reminder comes on, I call the dealer that I bought the car from and make a Saturday appt. I ask for the car I want as a loaner, an MDX or ZDX, etc and I get to test drive that car for the day whilst the car is being serviced.
 
The $230 oil change was due almost entirely to the fact that at the second oil change the SH-AWD fluid has to be changed -- and it is very pricey.
 
While 15,000 may be "nuthin" for a Honda (which is another reason the Acura is only 9/10ths), an Audi with 15,000 miles on it is middle aged. I have kept ONE German car more than 50,000 miles. The German cars drive great, perform great, look great and their features and functions are the standard by which the other guys measure themselves (or so I assume.)
 
Yet ONLY this car feels new at 15k miles -- the German cars seem to begin the aging process by 15K miles.
 
Now give me the choice of the Acura or the Audi and get rid of the price issues, well, at this point I would still go with the German despite my belief that it will age faster than the Japanese car. In fact I am starting to believe that an American car will also age more slowly due to the fact that we Americans think nothing of making two round trips to Columbus Ohio from Cincinnati per week, whereas a German would take a train for such a distance if at all possible (which it almost always is, in Germany and most of Europe.)
 
Another example, I do business in Chicago -- 275 miles from Cincinnati. I used to fly. Now the 5 hour drive to Chicago is about identical to the time it takes to make the trip on Delta (all things considered.)
 
And I can drive there in an Enterprise rental for a fraction of the cost of a plane ticket. These days I am probably putting 18-20K per year on my car because it is more prudent and pragmatic than the currently available alternatives.
 
In any case all of these things seem to support driving cars that think 15K miles ain't no thang.

#13911 of 16087 Re: Brief (for me) Update [markcincinnati] by billyperksii

May 10, 2012 (5:58 am)

Replying to: markcincinnati (May 09, 2012 7:27 pm)
Mark- just say "rear differential fluid" not SH-AWD.

#13912 of 16087 Re: Brief (for me) Update [billyperksii] by markcincinnati

May 10, 2012 (6:11 am)

Replying to: billyperksii (May 10, 2012 5:58 am)
Will do -- I was just quoting the dealer's lingo.

#13913 of 16087 Re: Brief (for me) Update [markcincinnati] by jeffm5

May 10, 2012 (6:20 am)

Replying to: markcincinnati (May 09, 2012 7:27 pm)
Markcincinnati, I find your posts very well written and informative. I just bought a Volvo S60. It will be a 2013. I will not take delivery until July. My recent cars have been Avalons and Subarus. At 15,000 miles those cars still felt like new. In you opinion, will the S60 be showing signs of aging at 15,000 miles like the German cars? Thanks.

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