Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#13330 of 16087 Re: Prelude, TSX, BMW [qbrozen]
Mar 08, 2012 (10:43 am)
the intermediate shaft failures have scared me off the Porsches. I really really wanted to get one this last time out ... just couldn't bring myself to take the risk.
The reason for this is actually the oil. The engine was designed for high-zinc oils that are common in Europe and were judged to be minimally acceptable in the U.S. at the time. But the EPA drove the maximum levels to 1200ppm and people started to notice a few problems. Then they dropped the levels to 800ppm and people started using synthetics with sometimes none of the original anti-wear additives in them. Suddenly everyone's engines were eating themselves.
There is a company that makes a properly designed replacement part for it, though (new bearing sets), and if the vehicle doesn't have this "upgrade" already, then deduct the price from the vehicle as any of that series engine will eventually fail, guaranteed, without the mod, as you cannot physically buy high zinc oil in the U.S. any more due to the EPA's idiocy.
The problem was that the additives traditionally caused cats to die in 50-60K miles. Now the government mandates 100K+ for cats, which meant less additives. The oil makers were caught in the middle. This is exactly like the paint fiasco that happened in the 80s and 90s, where paint was peeling off of cars due to the EPA requiring different types of paint formulations. Eventually they fixed it around 2000 or so, but in this case, it's a generation of engines that won't make it past 150K, (anything that's based off of engineering previous to ~2000 or so) and some like the Boxster and Rotary engines that rev really fast just simply die in half that time. Note - this also affects a lot of S2000s, which routinely get revved hard.
And, yes, it really does happen. I lost my 67 Mercedes' engine after two oil changes when the EPA switched the levels without telling anyone. Working fine and ~5000 miles later (was my daily driver at the time) the entire internals were shot. Not even re-buildable. The oil simply provided no protection and it ate the top end, bottom end, the bearings, and even the gaskets. No smoke or issues and then a pile of parts. So I feel for the poor Porsche owners as I've been there myself.
As of 2009, Porsche has finally redesigned the engines and the problems are controlled if you use high mileage non-synthetic in the engines. (Castrol or similar) But a lot of people still run racing oil in them and ignore the EPA's "requirements". I'd do the same too, if I had a $50K Porsche sitting in my driveway. Better to be safe than sorry when a rebuild can cost 10K+ on these things.
All of that said, the Boxster *is* a good ride. The one to stay away from, though, is the Cayman S. It's significantly more rigid and quieter. It's downright dangerous as you find yourself having a hard time just pulling yourself out of the seat at the showroom, let alone de-scrambling your brain's idea of "normal" after a test-drive.
#13331 of 16087 Re: Prelude, TSX, BMW [plekto]
Mar 08, 2012 (12:06 pm)
There is a company that makes a properly designed replacement part for it
Yes, and I looked into that. It is still a big big job to do the swap. If you can find the right car from a Porsche specialist or private owner who can tell you if its been done, great. I couldn't find any such vehicle in my budget, however. Its just something to be aware of.
#13332 of 16087 Re: Prelude, TSX, BMW [kyfdx]
Mar 08, 2012 (4:14 pm)
"Just for my own edification, what sort of money for the M3? $20K-$25K? Or, more than that?"
The insurance company is sticking to their guns at $17,300 ACV.
I'm into it for more than $40K, and it's worth about $25K real world.
#13333 of 16087 Re: Opinions on Infiniti [markcincinnati]
Mar 08, 2012 (5:05 pm)
The TL is on the cutting edge of ugly. . .
Phrases like that are why I look forward to reading your posts.
My TSX is of the previous generation, and the TLs of that era, as well as the TSXs, are much more pleasing to my eye than what's being peddled today. The new TSX is considerably larger than mine, and worse in a number of other ways as well, IMNHO.
Glad you're enjoying your car.
#13334 of 16087 Re: Prelude, TSX, BMW [fedlawman]
by kyfdx HOST
Mar 08, 2012 (6:06 pm)
Good luck... Hope you end up with something closer to $25K ..
#13335 of 16087 Re: Prelude, TSX, BMW [fedlawman]
Mar 08, 2012 (6:32 pm)
Best of luck to you fedlawman. Keep fighting and arguing until you get what you want.
Mar 08, 2012 (7:05 pm)
Thanks to both of you.
I spoke to my brother today and told him where we are. We settled on $22.5K and I left it to him to decide if he wants to try for more through arbitration (at his expense) or just write me a check for $4500.
My mechanic is happy. I told him he could buy the salvage. With his knowledge of repair and access to parts, $4300 is an awesome deal for that car.
Mar 08, 2012 (8:06 pm)
Thanks to gbrozen and plekto for the info on the IMS failures. I had heard about them but never researched it.
Definitely good too know. I'm not scared, but definitely will be diligent thanks to you.
Mar 08, 2012 (8:54 pm)
all this talk about them made me remember I always wanted one. But no way I can keep track of the model #s (993, 997).
But, this one, I am in love with. Perfect colors, obviously babied. And the right tranny. I have no clue of course about the price (and no, I am not in position to pay this much for a toy!)
#13339 of 16087 Re: Porsche [stickguy]
Mar 09, 2012 (7:41 am)
That's a 996. I'd pass - especially at $40,000.