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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16087 messages,  Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1324 of 1609

#13231 of 16087 Dealer pricing by fedlawman

Feb 27, 2012 (2:31 pm)

What is it with these dealers? I went to look at cars (BMW's first) over the weekend and honed in on a CPO 2009 335i coupe. It had nice equipment (leather, nav, etc.) and only 17,000 miles on the odo, but they were asking $40,000 (marked down from $45,000!).
 
I know this car was probably $50,000 new, but really, only $10,000 less than a new one? I bet if I asked about leasing a new $50,000 335i it would cost over $600/mo. That would mean a residual value of less than $30,000.
 
So they clean it up and add $2000 profit, and that means a car like this should cost $32,000.
 
And don't even get me started on Porsches. Dealers are asking mid-60's for 2008 C2's! Heh, I saw a 2008 Cayman S - beautiful with only $12,000 miles - and they wanted $50,000 for it. A new one is $60,000...
 
It was a frustrating weekend to say the least.
 
I really think I need to stick with E30s. They're cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, and they don't depreciate. I could buy a cherry 325i convertible for 7 or 8 thousand and be done with it.

#13232 of 16087 thanks for info by joshuah1

Feb 27, 2012 (2:41 pm)

I appreciate the responses since i last posted. you gave me a lot to think about re the G vs. TL comparison.

#13233 of 16087 Re: acura vs. tl [dbledmndk2] by flightnurse

Feb 27, 2012 (3:29 pm)

Replying to: dbledmndk2 (Feb 27, 2012 8:03 am)
I wish Audi would do something with their 2 liter engine, it needs more HP then 211 hp, with BMW now having a 240hp turbo 4, Audi needs to increase theirs to the TTS's 256hp if they did that I really think Sweeny complaints that BMW cars are expensive, the base price for the top tier A4 is $44K and it only comes with a turbo 4.

#13234 of 16087 Re: Dealer pricing [fedlawman] by ivan_99

Feb 27, 2012 (4:18 pm)

Replying to: fedlawman (Feb 27, 2012 2:31 pm)
The CPO does add value...but I suppose that is up to the purchaser to decide if they want to pay for this 'value'.
 
Did you attempt to negotiate? When I was looking at a CPO 335 coupe they dropped 2k off the MSRP without any real haggling. I'm not certain if that was their absolute bottom (I assume it wasn't).
 
But of course this was a different dealer, time of year, salesman, state, etc, etc...
 
The BMW CPO (I believe) is transferable too, so that is an added benefit as well.
 
I only find "WOW" deals when I'm not looking to buy

#13235 of 16087 Re: Dealer pricing [ivan_99] by fedlawman

Feb 27, 2012 (6:01 pm)

Replying to: ivan_99 (Feb 27, 2012 4:18 pm)
I was just tire kicking so I didn't try to negotiate.
 
I'm just surprised they price them so high. I know they will negotiate but I just wonder how many people they scare away.
 
Used cars are such a high profit item for dealers because they get the cars at wholesale and mark them up tremendously. Unlike with new cars, buyers are almost completely in the dark as to how much the dealer payed for the car - there's no foundation to stand on for buyers to negotiate.

#13236 of 16087 Opinions on Infiniti by smarty666

Feb 27, 2012 (7:17 pm)

So, the G lineup is going to be getting a redesign for the 2013 model year. I was hoping to get some people's thoughts as to what you think Infiniti is going to do to keep the G fresh, innovative, etc. This is especially in light of the new 3-Series with the turbo 4cyl and kick butt mpg.
 
Look forward to hearing the discussion!

#13237 of 16087 Re: Dealer pricing [fedlawman] by graphicguy

Feb 28, 2012 (8:02 am)

Replying to: fedlawman (Feb 27, 2012 2:31 pm)
fedlawman.....was at my BMW dealer last week. They had a '12 328i (loaded up) and a new '12 335i (loaded). They said they were only taking offers of MSRP on both.
 
Interestingly, given that scenario, my '11 335i was about $9K less (discounted) than it's '12 brother. For that large of a delta, the BMW would not have been on my shopping list last year.
 
Sween...you and I don't agree, often. But, I agree with you assessment regarding the value proposition of the recent 328i update. It's entering into territory that other cars really make more sense.
 
Don't get me wrong, there's nothing that drives like a 3, especially with the turbo 3.0. As a side note, there is ZERO lag with mine. But, when the 328i 4 cyl starts creeping toward $50K (loaded) and the 335i creeps towards $60K (loaded), it's time to look at some other vehicles.
 
To me, this is where the G37 starts making more sense.....the price creep of the 3 series puts it there....Infiniti didn't have to do anything.
 
Those of you who've been around here for awhile know of my fondness for the TL. But, I think Acura is going to go in a different direction with the next iteration. I hope they bring out a TL-S before they move on (they usually do). But, I'm not certain they'll be as edgy with the new TL. To me, that would be a real shame.
 
Audis...at least around SW OH, have very little at the dealerships that you can find. I'm seeing more recently. But, stocking levels are still very thin. And, I don't think it's because they sell a ton of them, as they can't if they don't have new stock. Drove an S4. Nice car. Not worth a premium over my 335 nor over an even larger premium over a TL SH-AWD.
 
IMHO, Mercedes C or E class don't even come close to those mentioned above.
 
Gas prices are once again artificially inflated. So, perhaps BMW is putting themselves in a good position with the 4 cyl in the 3 and 5 series. American public is fickle. They'll spend an extra $10K premium to get better MPG that amounts to $3K over the course of a hybrid's life.
 
It's coming....gas prices are due for a monumental crash given that demand had been so tepid (regardless of what people are saying about China and India) and political posturing usually amounts to nothing but noise (how long do you really think Iran can keep from selling oil in Europe). MPG on all vehicles is advancing at a very rapid rate. So, all of this means that a collapse is coming. We'll see how many want a $50K 4 cyl luxury car then.

#13238 of 16087 Re: Dealer pricing [graphicguy] by graphicguy

Feb 28, 2012 (8:03 am)

Replying to: graphicguy (Feb 28, 2012 8:02 am)
^^^^^
 
Sorry about that....looks like I started into a free-fall ramble with the above post. I don't get here that often these days.

#13239 of 16087 Re: Dealer pricing [fedlawman] by flightnurse

Feb 28, 2012 (8:38 am)

Replying to: fedlawman (Feb 27, 2012 2:31 pm)
Fedman it appears that BMW and Porsche's had thier value much better then others. However, if you look at the base price for a new 911, you are talking 80K base...
 
The CPO 335i for 40K seems about right, a fully loaded 335i is almost 60K.
 
You should be able to find a CPO 2009 off lease with less then 40K, which would increase the warranty to 100K for mid to low 20's.

#13240 of 16087 Re: Opinions on Infiniti [smarty666] by flightnurse

Feb 28, 2012 (8:53 am)

Replying to: smarty666 (Feb 27, 2012 7:17 pm)
Currently Infiniti has the G25 for the entry into the G sedan, which also gets better MPG then the thirsty G37. Right now I don't think a turbo 4 is in the works for Infiniti, however they need to raise their CAFE for get fined. Now since Nissan has some great diesels in Europe and Japan, not too sure why they don't bring these engines over to the US.
 
Regarding design, Infiniti has been on a evolution of their cars, so maybe a refresh would help sales.

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