Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#13229 of 16087 Re: acura vs. tl [joshuah1]
Feb 27, 2012 (8:03 am)
I had just gone through this same comparison myself although I also threw the Audi A4 into the mix. I've always been a Honda driver so I figured the Acura TL would be the next logical step. I test drove it 3 or 4 times really wanting to like it, but each time I was just left wanting something more. I personally didn't mind the exterior, but the interior had too many reminders that this really is just an expensive Honda (clunky Nav system, old thin strip digital clock, buttons galore on the console). The car was fast, but it was also pretty heavy and just felt big in my opinion. The SH-AWD kicked in when you accelerated around tight corners, but most of the time you're just in regular FWD.
I had my heart set on the A4 - I loved the gas mileage, the refined interior and I actually liked the pickup of the 4 cylinder turbo better than the TL. The only thing I hated was the a la carte option pricing (how the hell can you not offer a trip computer or dual zone climate control or bluetooth in a standard trim) and the arrogance of the sales people who wouldn't come down from MSRP.
Finally I decided to test drive the G37x and it was just the perfect balance with plenty of power - felt more powerful than the TL - and a refined interior with all the right options. I could care less about the Nav and the G37 lets you have that easy to use screen with all the functionality, less the $2k Nav. The TL without the Nav looked even more like a Honda and you'd have to rely solely on voice control, which was less than impressive during the test drive.
I ultimately decided to lease the G37x as there are some great deals right now with the pending redesign coming for 2013. I've had the car about 2 weeks and am really happy with everything except the MPG, which I knew I'd start to really dislike as soon as I started filling up the tank. I think the Acura TL would be best in the long term as the reliability and resale are unmatched, but my plan is to lease the G37x for 3 years and hope that Acura gets their act together so I can buy something long term when my lease is up.
Hope this helps.
#13230 of 16087 Re: G37sx vs TL SH AWD [joshuah1]
Feb 27, 2012 (2:05 pm)
I made my comparison for my car in the June - Aug 2011 time frame.
Acura TL Advance SH AWD (auto, 6 speed)
Audi A4 2.0T Prestige + Sport package (auto, 8 speed)
Audi S4 Premium with a couple of options to increase content (auto 7 speed)
Audi A6 Premium + with additional options to content it like the TL (auto 8 speed)
BMW 335x with Premium, Sport, Nav, Bi-Xenons, +sound upgrade (auto 6 speed)
Cadillac CTS/4 3.6 Luxury Edition w/19" wheels and paddle shifter (auto 6 speed)
Infiniti G37X - with every option (auto 7 speed)
Infiniti M37X with Premium and Technology (auto 7 speed)
Mercedes C class with several of the packages to content it similarly as the A4 or TL (auto 7 speed)
Volvo S60 T6 AWD with several packages to get it about to the Audi Prestige or TL Advance level of content (auto 6 speed)
I had a lease price number in mind ($600 or less per mo), and I used a service (fee based) called Car Woo to see what the discount off MSRP could be; I also went, in person, to the dealers I test drove and asked for a lease quote at 36 or 39 months 15K miles per year.
I bought (leased) the car on September 10.
Prior to acquiring the TL, I had narrowed my choices to the cars that offered blind spot warning (BSW) either as part of a package or sold as a separate option.
The cars I liked a lot (regardless of BSW):
Acura TL (seemed close to an Audi S4 in terms of feel)
Audi -- all of them
Infiniti M (the G seemed cramped -- I felt like a bug behind the wheel, the thing is so narrow and the hood slopes out of sight, so you can't easily see the front end -- and couldn't be had with BSW)
Volvo S60 T6 AWD
Honorable mention: Cadillac CTS/4 -- no OMG handles?!? and no BSW, but very American classy and an OK performer -- but not a screamer like the Acura, the Audi S4 or the Volvo S60 T6.
Worth noting: the G37X with the sport package did seem a lot of fun -- tons of power, good HUGE paddle shifters and a willingness to go (oddly, rather small wheels and tires, though.)
So, if YOU like the power of the Infiniti G and do not feel crammed inside the smallest interior of the bunch (at least it felt that way compared to the Audi and the Acura which at ~72" wide felt roomy), you should go with the Infiniti -- you are right the Acura is one step away from being "ugly." I like the amount of tech in the Acura and the power is strong -- almost, but not quite S4 strong and the torque vectoring gets rid of the Acura TL understeer.
On the other hand the new G, next year (?) will probably alleviate some of the size and content issues I had with it.
Regarding the pricing -- the Acura TL SH-AWD Advance with backup sensors and splash guards was just south of $48K. I was offered 13% off MSRP. The best off MSRP I could get in person was 8%.
I made a financial, performance, luxury (content) decision. Volvo was the worst in terms of an MSRP discount. Infiniti was second best (all from Car Woo, btw.)
You can't go wrong with either of your two choices -- but the Acura is not really attractive (when you are on the outside, it is OK when you are on the inside) and the G will be refreshed in about a year (so they say).
Purely on performance -- the G. Purely (for me) on affordability and almost the same performance the TL.
I think of the S4 everytime I floor the TL or when I am carving into or out of a curve while applying the throttle.
Drive it like you live.
Feb 27, 2012 (2:31 pm)
What is it with these dealers? I went to look at cars (BMW's first) over the weekend and honed in on a CPO 2009 335i coupe. It had nice equipment (leather, nav, etc.) and only 17,000 miles on the odo, but they were asking $40,000 (marked down from $45,000!).
I know this car was probably $50,000 new, but really, only $10,000 less than a new one? I bet if I asked about leasing a new $50,000 335i it would cost over $600/mo. That would mean a residual value of less than $30,000.
So they clean it up and add $2000 profit, and that means a car like this should cost $32,000.
And don't even get me started on Porsches. Dealers are asking mid-60's for 2008 C2's! Heh, I saw a 2008 Cayman S - beautiful with only $12,000 miles - and they wanted $50,000 for it. A new one is $60,000...
It was a frustrating weekend to say the least.
I really think I need to stick with E30s. They're cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, and they don't depreciate. I could buy a cherry 325i convertible for 7 or 8 thousand and be done with it.
#13232 of 16087 thanks for info
Feb 27, 2012 (2:41 pm)
I appreciate the responses since i last posted. you gave me a lot to think about re the G vs. TL comparison.
#13233 of 16087 Re: acura vs. tl [dbledmndk2]
Feb 27, 2012 (3:29 pm)
I wish Audi would do something with their 2 liter engine, it needs more HP then 211 hp, with BMW now having a 240hp turbo 4, Audi needs to increase theirs to the TTS's 256hp if they did that I really think Sweeny complaints that BMW cars are expensive, the base price for the top tier A4 is $44K and it only comes with a turbo 4.
#13234 of 16087 Re: Dealer pricing [fedlawman]
Feb 27, 2012 (4:18 pm)
The CPO does add value...but I suppose that is up to the purchaser to decide if they want to pay for this 'value'.
Did you attempt to negotiate? When I was looking at a CPO 335 coupe they dropped 2k off the MSRP without any real haggling. I'm not certain if that was their absolute bottom (I assume it wasn't).
But of course this was a different dealer, time of year, salesman, state, etc, etc...
The BMW CPO (I believe) is transferable too, so that is an added benefit as well.
I only find "WOW" deals when I'm not looking to buy
#13235 of 16087 Re: Dealer pricing [ivan_99]
Feb 27, 2012 (6:01 pm)
I was just tire kicking so I didn't try to negotiate.
I'm just surprised they price them so high. I know they will negotiate but I just wonder how many people they scare away.
Used cars are such a high profit item for dealers because they get the cars at wholesale and mark them up tremendously. Unlike with new cars, buyers are almost completely in the dark as to how much the dealer payed for the car - there's no foundation to stand on for buyers to negotiate.
#13236 of 16087 Opinions on Infiniti
Feb 27, 2012 (7:17 pm)
So, the G lineup is going to be getting a redesign for the 2013 model year. I was hoping to get some people's thoughts as to what you think Infiniti is going to do to keep the G fresh, innovative, etc. This is especially in light of the new 3-Series with the turbo 4cyl and kick butt mpg.
Look forward to hearing the discussion!
#13237 of 16087 Re: Dealer pricing [fedlawman]
Feb 28, 2012 (8:02 am)
fedlawman.....was at my BMW dealer last week. They had a '12 328i (loaded up) and a new '12 335i (loaded). They said they were only taking offers of MSRP on both.
Interestingly, given that scenario, my '11 335i was about $9K less (discounted) than it's '12 brother. For that large of a delta, the BMW would not have been on my shopping list last year.
Sween...you and I don't agree, often. But, I agree with you assessment regarding the value proposition of the recent 328i update. It's entering into territory that other cars really make more sense.
Don't get me wrong, there's nothing that drives like a 3, especially with the turbo 3.0. As a side note, there is ZERO lag with mine. But, when the 328i 4 cyl starts creeping toward $50K (loaded) and the 335i creeps towards $60K (loaded), it's time to look at some other vehicles.
To me, this is where the G37 starts making more sense.....the price creep of the 3 series puts it there....Infiniti didn't have to do anything.
Those of you who've been around here for awhile know of my fondness for the TL. But, I think Acura is going to go in a different direction with the next iteration. I hope they bring out a TL-S before they move on (they usually do). But, I'm not certain they'll be as edgy with the new TL. To me, that would be a real shame.
Audis...at least around SW OH, have very little at the dealerships that you can find. I'm seeing more recently. But, stocking levels are still very thin. And, I don't think it's because they sell a ton of them, as they can't if they don't have new stock. Drove an S4. Nice car. Not worth a premium over my 335 nor over an even larger premium over a TL SH-AWD.
IMHO, Mercedes C or E class don't even come close to those mentioned above.
Gas prices are once again artificially inflated. So, perhaps BMW is putting themselves in a good position with the 4 cyl in the 3 and 5 series. American public is fickle. They'll spend an extra $10K premium to get better MPG that amounts to $3K over the course of a hybrid's life.
It's coming....gas prices are due for a monumental crash given that demand had been so tepid (regardless of what people are saying about China and India) and political posturing usually amounts to nothing but noise (how long do you really think Iran can keep from selling oil in Europe). MPG on all vehicles is advancing at a very rapid rate. So, all of this means that a collapse is coming. We'll see how many want a $50K 4 cyl luxury car then.
#13238 of 16087 Re: Dealer pricing [graphicguy]
Feb 28, 2012 (8:03 am)
Sorry about that....looks like I started into a free-fall ramble with the above post. I don't get here that often these days.