Last post on Dec 06, 2013 at 7:58 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#12987 of 16984 Re: manual trans. Re: 528i 4 vs 6 cyl [fedlawman]
Jan 12, 2012 (8:03 am)
I agree with your last paragraph. We're entering a period where "less is more" insofar as our choices in autos goes.
It used to be only "bigger is better" and that only the big cars got the "more is more" treatment.
I had (or my wife had, better said) three Audi TT's, the last two were the high performance models (at the time) with the 225HP 4 cylinder (1.8).
Due to a timing issue, I had the distinct "pleasure" (not really) of having her last TT as my daily driver for a month or so.
God, I felt like a bug when I drove it on I-71 in rush hour. A big semi (with trailer) would damn near blow me away -- or so it felt.
Now the car was nimble and very peppy and all that -- but damn, get me the hell outta here! This was my daily mantra.
When I then got my 2005 A6, I felt much better -- then when my 2009 A4 came in with a ~110" wheelbase and a wide stance, I felt better still.
Currently in our garage is an '11 Infiniti FX35 AWD and a '12 Acura TL AWD -- I have grown to like and pretty much can say, now after many months have passed, that I love driving either one of them.
As big as the Acura is, it is amazing to me that it only has a 109" wheelbase, yet it feels bigger still than my previous A6. Less is more, indeed.
Can't wait to come up with some excuse to test the new 3 series -- but I will, of course, await the X-drive model, as I simply wouldn't even consider 2WD period.
Best time ever, to be in the market -- yup!
Drive it like you live.
#12988 of 16984 Re: 528i 4 vs 6 cyl [sweendogy]
Jan 12, 2012 (9:01 am)
Sweeny the only 5 series not to come with a manual is 528i, the M5 will be coming with a manual. I'm only guess that the 528i doesn't have one because its an entry level 5 series and people wouldn't want one in it. Which is sad since it would be a great car with one.
#12989 of 16984 Re: manual trans. Re: 528i 4 vs 6 cyl [rayainsw]
Jan 12, 2012 (9:04 am)
Ray the new M5 does not come with a manual as of yet, however it is in the works, the other 5 series to have a manual is the 550i. Since BMW has revamped the 550i to really be a watered down M5, the 550i is on my very short list of cars...
#12990 of 16984 Re: manual trans. Re: 528i 4 vs 6 cyl [fedlawman]
Jan 12, 2012 (10:10 am)
Excellent post and yes the compact car segment has gotten better, I mean, leather interior, bluetooth, smooth ride, and quality interior, but it comes with a price, a fully loaded cruze is $26K, the new Buick Verano fully loaded is 30K so get these these goodies costs too.
#12991 of 16984 Re: 528i 4 vs 6 cyl [sweendogy]
Jan 12, 2012 (10:12 am)
The only thing the 6 has over the 4 is the smoothness of the engine and for some people that means a lot. There is no 4 cyl that will be as smooth as the BMW inline 6...
#12994 of 16984 Re: 528i 4 vs 6 cyl [flightnurse]
Jan 12, 2012 (10:33 am)
We will see flight if the is the case- I dont think BMW would put a crappy engine in a 5. Talk smooth all you want but Mpgs and acceleration is what brings people gets people hot.
#12995 of 16984 Re: 528i 4 vs 6 cyl [flightnurse]
Jan 12, 2012 (11:19 am)
Smoothness comes in two flavors, the first is engine balance, and the second is power delivery.
- The only match I know of for an I-6 in this metric is an H-4, an H-6, or a V-12. Pretty much every other engine configuration suitable for an automobile will develop ordered vibrations at some level.
- Engines of the 4-Stroke / 4-Cylinder (or fewer) variety suffer from noticeable "torque reversal" events; in the case of the four pot motor, there are two such events per revolution of the crank. What is a "Torque Reversal" event? A state where the power delivery of the last cylinder to fire has waned to the point where it can no longer sustain engine rotation and when the next cylinder to fire has yet to wax to the point where it can sustain said rotation. Considering 4-Stroke engines apply over 90% of their power between a point twenty degrees after TDC and twenty degrees before BDC, there are two forty degree periods per rotation of the crank where the engine mechanicals and the flywheel are driving the engine.
- The remediation of natural engine imbalance of I-4 engines has been known for a very long time, simply keep displacement to roughly two liters or less and apply two (im)balance shafts rotating at twice engine RPM (one to either side of the block), and the natural vibrations of the engine are effectively cancelled out.
- The remediation of torque reversal events is both easier and not as complete; it is easier because the manufacturer only needs to add a heavier flywheel to effectively dampen out the events. The thing is, dampening isn't as "complete" (for lack of a better word) as cancelling; the torque reversals will always be there, it will just be very difficult to sense them.
All intermittent combustion engines exhibit torque peaks and valleys, even the monster 18 cylinder R-2800 "Double Wasp" and the even monsterer 28-Cylinder R-4360 "Wasp Major". That said, once beyond the 6-Cylinder threshold the "valleys" don't step into the realm of negative torque and are thus imbued with a property called "smoothness". Six cylinder engines, even BMW's vaunted I6 models, do venture briefly into the negative torque territory three times per revolution, but the excursion below the line of zero torque is so shallow and so short in duration, they too have been given accolades for their smoothness.
For my part, if BMW's new(ish) turbocharged 2.0 liter I-4 is engineered to be "only as smooth" as the 2.0T in our new GTI, it will be more than smooth enough for me.
#12996 of 16984 Re: 528i 4 vs 6 cyl [shipo]
Jan 12, 2012 (12:43 pm)
Great post -- I nominate it for "one of the great posts" awards (as if there is such an award.)
If the new BMW turbo 4 is as smooth as the 4 that was in my 2009 A4, I would be delighted. Knowing how time and tide tend to mean incremental improvements are possible (because of the passage of time -- plus a stack of $100 bills), I would assume this new BMW engine will be even smoother. Love the higher HP (and slightly higher torque) than in the Audi 2.0T -- makes me wonder if the tuner shops won't be bringing out some Fritos to up the torque, big time and even boost the HP by at least another 10 or so.
31 months to go on my '12 Acura TL lease. Of course Audi may well come out with their new and improved 2.0T, in that time period too.
And with $4.00/gal gasoline coming soon to a pump near you, these 4-cylinder engines keep getting more and more attractive.
Drive it like you live.