Last post on Dec 06, 2013 at 7:58 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
Jan 03, 2012 (12:18 pm)
Excellent posts guys.
How fast can we really go on our public roads? How much power do we really need? We're car enthusiasts & that's what we want.
I live in Connecticut & Commute to The Bronx 6 days a week. The roads I drive on have mostly 50 mph (in NYC) & 55 mph (Westchester & CT). There's even a 3 lane (each way) parkway I take sometimes with a 45 mph speed limit! 2 of my cars (Prelude & TSX) have 200 horsepower 4 cylinder engines. Guess what? I seriously have trouble keeping the speedos under 80. If I slide my TSX shifter down a notch and use the paddle shifters, it hits 100 mph in 4th gear.
I've got my Prelude Type SH as my super fun to drive, lightweight, exit/entrance ramp attacking, awesome handling, stick shift car that I drive to work once a week now.
The TSX is my daily driver. As much as I love driving my Prelude, the thickly bolstered, heated leather seats, automatic climate control, & bluetooth, & even the (gasp) automatic transmission are fantastic. My wife does drive it on the weekends if she goes out for the afternoon on her own without the kids. She prefers driving the TSX solo as opposed to her 2011 Pilot which she chauffers the kids around in all week. It is nice to have 2 automatic transmission cars.
I do admit to having an option "prejudice" when it comes to the different cars in this class.
No way would I even consider a G25X, only a Sport/Nav/Premium G37X.
With a BMW, the only way I could even think of affording a 335Xi is if it is a CPO car. Then I'd have to really think, is it really worth it to get this CPO 335xi over a brand new optioned as I want 328xi? With the upcoming
320i w/ X drive 328i 2.0L Turbo 4, the 260 lb ft of torque & sub 6 second 0-60 mph time will do it for me.
When the time comes, I'd have to check out the C350 as well. Who knows, BMW may have botched the electric power steering (it is LIFELESS in my TSX)? Maybe MBs 7 speed auto transmission & 3.5 L V6 would be a better fit for my daily commute. I might be able to pick one up at a screaming bargain executive demo car too. MBUSA's headquarters (as well as BMWUSA's) are about 15 minutes from where my parents live & the dealership near them might pick up an MB Executive Demo car that's RWD instead of the run-of-the mill C300 4Matics that every dealership stocks. Maybe if I LOVE the Mercedes that much, I could live with a RWD car in CT. I'd be willing to live with MB Text instead of the full leather.
There's been a lot of talk about the "high end harshness" of the G37's engine. Fact of the matter is, ask most people & they are very happpy with their G37 Sedan.
It is really fantastic to have the perspective on here not only from the casual enthusiast, but also from guys who track their cars & have been to driving schools too.
#12897 of 16984 Re: fedlawman [markcincinnati]
Jan 03, 2012 (1:27 pm)
It is funny, because the dealers would make you believe they're doing you such a favor by ordering a car the way you want it. Germans aren't so bad, but they always start their negotiations from "if it's an order, it'll be at sticker", like it was a rule or something. Even though, as you mentioned, an ordered car is lower cost to them, they want actually a larger profit on it. Classic reverse psychology: you came it, you want it just like it, you must be very motivated, so I'm charging you for that desire - if you walk away, no harm done to my bottom line, yet, as long as there are enough people to come and get something else. On the other hand, the one on my lot is sitting there, if you walk away, I'm still having a car to sell, so I better price it to sell now.
It's all instant gratification. When I ordered my 328i SportsWagon for ED followed by Performance Center delivery (yes, you can combine the two), many people at work could not understand why I would wait for a car for four month, just to get it right. Isn't that easier to go there and just get a red one off the lot? They're asking. Well, yes, but to me a deal on something you don't really want is not a deal at all.
#12898 of 16984 Re: mark & fedlawman [nyccarguy]
Jan 03, 2012 (1:36 pm)
I have been to three Audi (in Seefeld Austria) driving schools and one BMW driving school (here in the US in South Carolina). Both schools teach you how to brake, steer and generally gain a pretty high level of control over your car at speeds faster than you are probably able to imagine yourself going "comfortably."
I drive my 305HP TL so slowly on Interstate 71S on the way to downtown Cincinnati, I rarely have any chance to exercise my abilities.
We had our first slick road conditions here yesterday -- the local news interviewed our State Highway Patrolman du jour about how to drive defensively (which is, after all, what they teach in the Audi and BMW driving schools even if they never use that term). The first 25 seconds of the response from the highway patrol was to describe what to do if your vehicle is NOT equipped with ABS (or stability control) -- just as he started to explain the differences in braking with ABS vs non-ABS, the interview was cut short.
As I watched this interview unfold, I grew angry since the response from the cop was to NOT press hard on the brakes without ABS and I knew he was about to say something like, "unless you have ABS . . . (wherein he was cut off) in which case you should apply your brakes with maximum pressure on the brake pedal."
If anyone was about 75% paying attention, I would think they would press on their ABS equipped car's brake pedal until the tell-tale vibration started and then quickly reduce pressure on the pedal. Of course this is just the opposite of what should take place to ensure the shortest, straightest stop (with steering capability, to boot)!
What is the % of ABS equipped cars? I've had it in all my cars since 2000 for pity's sake -- 11+ years.
Why not talk about getting out and cranking the engine with the hand crank?
Oh crap, I'm way off topic.
Hmmm, let's see -- OK, I've got it.
All ELLPS and LPS (and most other cars on the market today) have BOTH ABS and Electronic Stability Control, we should be taught how to use them for optimum effect!
Whew, hopefully I saved it. Sorry for going off track. I panicked.
#12899 of 16984 Re: mark & fedlawman [markcincinnati]
Jan 03, 2012 (3:35 pm)
I live less than 10 miles from the BMW Performance Center and have been on their track many times.
I agree with your comments about confusing the drivers about braking practices.
Its one of the 1st things you're taught by the Performance Center trainers when you pick up your new BMW car there, and I would guess well over 75% start out the day not knowing the proper procedure for braking in wet/icy conditions.
BTW, I never tire of spinning out on the skid-pad at the Performance Center track....
#12900 of 16984 Re: mark & fedlawman [busiris]
Jan 04, 2012 (6:50 am)
Ahh the smell of burning brake pads in the morning!
#12901 of 16984 Re: A little OT [fedlawman]
Jan 04, 2012 (8:53 am)
Talk about old school, 300ZX TT and Hurricane 600. So how does one contact you off this forum? The 300zx TT is a monster when it comes to maintenance.
First time to Europe I hired a Hurricane 600 in the UK, second time to Europe hired a 520i.
#12902 of 16984 Re: Frustrating [markcincinnati]
Jan 04, 2012 (8:58 am)
Long post – fair warning . . .
I do recognize that even a quarter mile blast [ to well over 100 MPH from a standing start, in my current BMW 3 ] is something I am unlikely to do anytime soon – or anywhere but a race track. However, I use [ and I appreciate ] the ability to gain speed when I want or need to. The deep well of Torque available at most any RPM, in any gear, allows acceleration with a degree of ease, an effortless surge that I find quite satisfying.
Though I relish those occasions when I can apply WOT for more than a few seconds, I also appreciate the times where much less than full throttle accomplishes the task at hand [ passing, merging, etc. ] with no flash or drama. There is [ to me ] a strong feeling that this car [ in some ways like the Corvette I drove for over 2 years ] will do anything asked – all day long – and accomplish the assigned tasks without breaking a sweat.
This applies to the handling, as well. Though I never purposely approach 10/10 in my [ street ] driving, the feeling of precision and my sense that there is capacity well beyond what I will intentionally use results in a level of security that I value. Within the performance envelope I use, this feeling that I am always well inside the car’s limits is of value – to me.
So – in addition to the quantifiable performance aspects [ acceleration rate, cornering Gs, etc. ], for me, that feeling or sense of capacity beyond what I can comfortably tap in my typical driving is one reason that I am willing to pay the price for something like the BMW 3.
I use the aspects of the performance that I think I prudently can, when and where I can – and this other ‘sense - touchy, feely’ stuff sustains me from one such occasion to the next. And helps keep my frustration in check.
Happy BMW customer . . .
#12903 of 16984 Re: Frustrating [markcincinnati]
Jan 04, 2012 (8:58 am)
Mark for me its not how fast I can drive my cars, but the pleasure it brings. For me, the BMW 3 series is a complete car, the seating position, the shifter, the feel of the car when driving. Can't get that with the G or the M (I currently have a M37X as a rental), Audi comes close, MB does have it. There are a couple of off amps and on ramps that really brings a smile to my face in Phoenix.
#12904 of 16984 Re: mark & fedlawman [nyccarguy]
Jan 04, 2012 (9:02 am)
NyCarguy BMW CPO is truly the best way to get your BMW, it comes with an extended warranty and you should be able to get the BMW with more equipment then you want for the same price.
#12905 of 16984 Re: Frustrating [flightnurse]
Jan 04, 2012 (10:17 am)
Off and on ramps are straights - best left to cars that get up and go. The g and the M do have that.