Last post on Dec 06, 2013 at 7:58 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#12708 of 16984 Re: The Great (Acura) TSX Debate [tlong]
Dec 20, 2011 (7:23 pm)
Market the AWD for winter needs in the snowy climates & as a performance advantage in the areas where the weather is nice.
TSX 4cyl Automatic - 22 city / 31 highway
TSX 6cyl Automatic - 18 city / 28 highway
Driving my 4cyl & the dealer's 6cyl back to back gave me a good perspective on the strengths & weaknesses of each.
Steering - One thing I truly dislike about my 2010 TSX 4 cyl is the lifeless electric power steering. It transmits no road feel at low speeds and artificially firms up at higher speeds.
The 6 cyl is equipped with hydraulic power steering. While a little over boosted for my tastes, it is progressively linear and very smooth. I totally prefer this setup to the electric unit in my 4 cyl.
The V6 has an obvious edge in the acceleration department. Jump on the accelerator and it keeps going. I was traveling at triple digit speeds this AM berore I backed off and returned to a much more sedate 70. Passing is never a problem.
My 4 cyl's acceleration is adequate. It never feels strained. I also know how to use the engine's high RPM power band. Merging onto the highway and cruising at 80 - 90 mph aren't a problem. I have to admit that getting back into my car tonight I was disappointed after driving it's V6 cousin for a day.
Both cars ride nicely without feeling isolated.
The handling edge goes to my 4 cyl TSX hands down. While far from a dedicated RWD chassis, the TSX makes the most of its Accord platform roots. There is a lightness to it. You can feel the weight transfer going around curves.
The V6 is 200 lbs heavier & you feel the boat anchor during spirited driving. The VSA (skid control) is constantly fighting with this giant weight over the front wheels.
The TSX is definitely (IMO) a luxury, performance oriented vehicle. Having driven both the E90 BMW 3 series (in both 328 & 335 flavors) as well as the Infiniti G37X, I think there's NO argument from anybody they are the true driver's cars of the group.
I've read up and am impressed by the new Mercedes-Benz C-class reviews, but will reserve judgement until I actually get behind the wheel of one.
I think even though it is FWD, the TSX stacks up against an Audi A4 2.0T (not the $50,000 prestige with Audi's Sport Differential).
I've told you guys before, I originally bought the TSX for my wife using a cash for clunkers credit. I inherited it from her when we decided to buy a Pilot in anticipation of our 3rd child (Whitney is 3 weeks old today).
Would I have bought it for myself if I went out car shopping for my daily driver that didn't have fuel economy restrictions? It wouldn't have been my 1st choice, I'll readily admit.
Driving Dynamic wise, I'd pick the E90 3 then the G37XS sedan, & a distant 3rd would be the TSX.
I'm happy with my TSX.
#12709 of 16984 Re: ELLPS - IS350 [m6user]
Dec 20, 2011 (8:19 pm)
"Ask the approx 85% of BMW owners that drive automatics the same question. People can enjoy RWD with either transmission. It may be more fun to row your own for many people but not a neccesitiy to enjoy the car."
I believe that approx 85% of BMW owners who drive automatics don't even know which wheels are being driven.
#12711 of 16984 Re: ELLPS - IS350 [fedlawman]
Dec 21, 2011 (3:56 am)
'I believe that approx 85% of BMW owners who drive automatics don't even know which wheels are being driven.'
My 335iS DCT 'automatic' is RWD.
In the 15%?
#12712 of 16984 Re: ELLPS - IS350 [rayainsw]
by kyfdx@Edmunds HOST
Dec 21, 2011 (4:31 am)
Probably in the 15% who actually have RWD...
In this area, the vast majority of BMWs sold are AWD..
The local Infiniti dealer doesn't even stock a RWD version of any model, if it is available in AWD... So, no RWD versions of G37 sedans, etc..
#12713 of 16984 Re: ELLPS - IS350 [fedlawman]
Dec 21, 2011 (7:45 am)
I agree that a large majority of folks probably don't know if their 2WD cars are front or rear drive.
I believe that folks who buy AWD are aware that all four wheels are driven -- they may or may not know if the bias is F or R, however.
With virtually every Audi and BMW now or soon to be NOT naturally aspirated and likely 2 cylinders less than previously, I suspect many folks won't know if their A4 or 3 series or A6 or 5 series is a 6 or an 8 (respectively.)
The fuel costs are probably more noticed than the # of cylinders.
It may not be accurate for the whole country, but the Audi, BMW, Infiniti, Mercedes and Volvo dealers (and the sales of CTS Cadillacs) sales are -- well over 50% AWD these days (speaking as one from SW Ohio.) The Infinity dealer, in fact, sells some 90% of the EX, FX and M class vehicles as AWD (I suspect the same is true of the G's, I have simply not bothered to check on them).
AWD for the non-purist, non-high-performance buyer is the performance option. And, of course, the two local Audi dealers basically ONLY sell quattros, to those in the know and those who don't care, period.
We long-time Audi mavens also believe that quattro is THE performance set-up, wet or dry. Locally, I can't recall the last time I saw more than a few RWD Bimmer's either (but remember we are talking about SW Ohio where we "sometimes" have a snow fall that lingers more than 24 hours.)
I have taken (four times) the Audi driving experience in Seefeld, Austria and (once) the BMW X-Drive school (here in the US -- in South Carolina), and although the "purists" who attend do proclaim RWD is the best, even they admit that BMW's are not very much fun on anything other than dry pavement, hence their purchase of an X-drive BMW and their attendance at the BMW X-Drive school.
Overall, even the driving instructors (in both schools) are converts to AWD and Torque vectoring rear diffs, since we all drive our cars on both normal and low coefficient of friction surfaces often in the same day. In the ideal world, so many speak of, "RWD rules," but perhaps since it "never rains in Southern California" RWD cars are seen as handfuls for the proletariat (those not living in SoCal.) In terms of preferences then, it seems that a lot of (the majority) folks -- if given the choice (and care) will opt for AWD, FWD and RWD in that order.
Of course, to be crystal clear, I am speaking from the point of reference of those who care to comment who live in SW Ohio, SE Indiana and Northern Kentucky.
Drive it like you live.
Dec 21, 2011 (9:15 am)
Pretty much here in the northeast (ny, nj, ct, ma) every luxury, performance car sold is AWD. Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Infiniti, Lexus...
I've literally seen maybe 4 IS350s total since the car came out in 2006.
#12715 of 16984 Re: The Great (Acura) TSX Debate [nyccarguy]
Dec 21, 2011 (2:04 pm)
I personally would love to see Acrua drop the RDX turbo 4 into the TXS, make it run on regular fuel. It doesn't have to make the 240hp that the RDX makes, maybe 220hp with 220lbs of torque.
#12716 of 16984 Re: The Great (Acura) TSX Debate [flightnurse]
Dec 21, 2011 (2:09 pm)
I think Acura is dropping the turbo from the RDX. Not into the TSX, but all together. Bedsides, that Turbo 4 sucks more gas than the 3.5 L V6.
#12717 of 16984 Re: ELLPS - IS350 [fkong]
Dec 21, 2011 (2:27 pm)
My 328i has the M-sport package, and I paid less then you possibly did for your IS. Also the IS isn't as balanced as the BMW, then add the M-Sport package... Resale is another big thing, I love my free maintenance and bumper to bumper warranty.