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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1260 of 1609

#12591 of 16087 Re: Displacement replacements and other thoughts. . . [markcincinnati] by sweendogy

Dec 05, 2011 (6:13 pm)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Dec 05, 2011 4:12 pm)
While I agree Acura should "advance" I feel they do not need to completely change to awd. They did very well in the 90 and 2000s with a front wheel drive setup. The biggest mistake is they lost its passion and have made the car more Buick then BMW. The dropped the low cost integra that got the youth in the door. They made the tsx bloated and its best car the TL (legend) is ugly and bloated. They also killed the nsx which was a reason to go into the dealership in the first place. Fwd setup not great for performance but it was these thigs that killed the brand and it's sales numbers. - Sh-awd or whatever it's called is pretty good setup but it's not the answer to get people in the door- they have more cara in th lineup then they did 10 years ago and sell half the number of cars.

#12592 of 16087 Re: Displacement replacements and other thoughts. . . [sweendogy] by tlong

Dec 05, 2011 (9:43 pm)

Replying to: sweendogy (Dec 05, 2011 6:13 pm)
While I agree Acura should "advance" I feel they do not need to completely change to awd. They did very well in the 90 and 2000s with a front wheel drive setup. The biggest mistake is they lost its passion and have made the car more Buick then BMW. The dropped the low cost integra that got the youth in the door. They made the tsx bloated and its best car the TL (legend) is ugly and bloated. They also killed the nsx which was a reason to go into the dealership in the first place. Fwd setup not great for performance but it was these thigs that killed the brand and it's sales numbers. - Sh-awd or whatever it's called is pretty good setup but it's not the answer to get people in the door- they have more cara in th lineup then they did 10 years ago and sell half the number of cars.
 
Excellent post on Acrua, sween. Agree 100%. And I drive an '05 TL. A much better looking car IMHO than the current one. Acura has really lost its way, as has Honda.

#12593 of 16087 Re: Displacement replacements and other thoughts. . . [markcincinnati] by nyccarguy

Dec 05, 2011 (9:45 pm)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Dec 05, 2011 4:12 pm)
I think that's an excellent idea. Definitely a great way to differentiate Acura from its Honda roots. Buyers here in the northeast & new England will buy anything and everything AWD.
 
Give my TSX a turbo, SH AWD, & excellent brakes (the oem brakes are pathetic) & I'd give it another look.

#12594 of 16087 Re: Displacement replacements and other thoughts. . . [sweendogy] by markcincinnati

Dec 06, 2011 (7:50 am)

Replying to: sweendogy (Dec 05, 2011 6:13 pm)
If my message somehow went too far, I apologize -- I do not believe that moving to an all AWD line-up (or 99%, as in the case of Audi -- and in the case of Audi it is 100% of their advertising) will alone re-position Acura in the minds of the intended customers.
 
As I mentioned in my earlier post, the crux of the issue is not how these cars drive (if the 2012 TL Advance SH-AWD is any indicator), they are not a boring drive, not an incompetent drive, nor lacking in performance. The thing is the cars are pretty much not very attractive -- even if they do get bonus points for trying to look different.
 
They have the driving thing in pretty good shape as far as I'm concerned -- they need to modernize the engines and look at the content that is offered by every car brand/product they wish to emulate and be guided accordingly.
 
They need to consider making themselves perceived solely as an AWD company and they need an across the board styling transplant or upgrade asap.
 
Probably more than any other step they could take, styling is the one that will bear the most fruit. For, no matter how much they up their game in the performance or content arena, people need something to draw them to the showroom and something to feel good about after they buy.
 
My '12 TL is "better" in so many ways than my '09 A4 -- which was the first year for the change to the B8 platform for Audi. I would not expect this to remain thus -- a refreshed A4, most likely, will again be more attractive (in all the above ways) than the current TL (from a design perspective mainly.)
 
You don't have to agree with the magazines, but the current A6, which looks very much like a larger B8, A4, is winning friends, awards wise. No Acura is on any list I can find. BMW, too, remains a repeat top choice amongst those who award wins for being great.
 
Acura simply needs a style-ectomy, soon.
 
 

#12595 of 16087 Re: Displacement replacements and other thoughts. . . [markcincinnati] by sweendogy

Dec 06, 2011 (10:30 am)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Dec 06, 2011 7:50 am)
Style I agree - I also think they need to go cheaper to find youth buyers. We have heard from owners that the TSX is a great value - but it's still 30k an bulk of the buyers are older people- make a 25k coupe with a power 4 that gets youth in the door. All in you can't pick a car under the Acura nameplate that says look at me - "I'm rediculously good looking" - and that's a major problem.
 
Love the traction this is finally getting - its time to release the TsX from this Elpps chat once and all as a lesson to Acura you can't stand around for 10 years and do nothing in an evolving car biz. (sorry for typos, iPhone)

#12596 of 16087 Re: Displacement replacements and other thoughts. . . [sweendogy] by nyccarguy

Dec 06, 2011 (12:20 pm)

Replying to: sweendogy (Dec 06, 2011 10:30 am)
Sween - I agree with you & Mark that the Acura lineup definitely needs a makeover. You are right that none of the models scream "I gotta have it."
 
Like I said, my TSX is handsome (IMHO) but its styling doesn't compare to BMW, Audi, MB.
 
Practicality, Luxury, & Technology are driving people into Acura showrooms rather than style & performance.

#12597 of 16087 Re: Displacement replacements and other thoughts. . . [sweendogy] by markcincinnati

Dec 06, 2011 (12:21 pm)

Replying to: sweendogy (Dec 06, 2011 10:30 am)
Isn't the upcoming RSX supposed to come in at a lower price point? Of course then there's the issue that the TSX is supposedly a cancelled product and that the TL will shrink in size.
 
But if you can at least suggest that you can offer a lower entry point, price-wise, you may find you attract more and younger customers. Truth be told the TL is actually much bigger feeling than my outgoing A4, which did, technically, have a longer wheel-base, but the TL is wider.
 
Again, we seem to be in violent agreement, Acura needs an overall styling cue that is spread across all cars and, first and foremost, is attractive.
 
You may or may not like the look of an Audi, but the entire line from the lowest cost A3 to the big buck A8L or R8 all have cues that they are Audi's.
 
BMW, ditto.
 
Acura is trying with their beak front end, but it obviously wasn't working for them, considering the plastic surgery the TL just underwent.
 
C'mon let's make some good looking cars -- at all price points!

#12598 of 16087 Re: Displacement replacements and other thoughts. . . [markcincinnati] by ivan_99

Dec 06, 2011 (12:34 pm)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Dec 06, 2011 12:21 pm)
C'mon let's make some good looking cars -- at all price points!
 
...any KIA (Rio starting at 13k).
 
To me it seemed like the Acura beak was trying to imitate the Cadillac shield...but it ended up looking to thick and plasticky...

#12599 of 16087 Lower price point by nyccarguy

Dec 06, 2011 (1:17 pm)

I don't know how much lower the price of an entry level Acura can go. I think the average new car price is $30K. The $30K price point is the new $20K price point of 15 years ago.

#12600 of 16087 Re: Lower price point [nyccarguy] by dino001

Dec 06, 2011 (2:05 pm)

Replying to: nyccarguy (Dec 06, 2011 1:17 pm)
They should have never ditched RSX. That would have been a great $25K+ entry with $28K-30K Type S. Small overlap with top of Civic with extra zip (make base engine 10 hp stronger) and equipment.
 
Honda must be experiencing some big internal struggles that we don't know about. Just look at latest Civic and Accord. The "sportyish" DNA is all but gone, virtually no trace.
 
I recently a rented Accord (yes, I was surpirised myself - Hertz had Accord in their rental fleet). Mechanicals were adequate, but the car did not impress me at all. Really cheap interior, barge look, even some ergonomics were not so great (always strong suit of Japanese cars). Long story short, if I were in market for family midsize sedan, Accord may not even make the short list.

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