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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16087 messages,  Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1245 of 1609

#12440 of 16087 Re: New 3 series [poodog13] by markcincinnati

Nov 08, 2011 (1:23 pm)

Replying to: poodog13 (Nov 08, 2011 12:22 pm)
What once were vices are now virtues. . . .
 
I never had TPMS until 2005 -- now, it too, is a must have (and it is now mandatory, so no longer a possible disqualifier.)
 
Got electronic stability control (branded ESP) in 2001, after thinking "why would I need that, I've got ABS?" -- then, after having it just one year, it became a must have, too (I understand it too will be no longer an option, this MY.)
 
Thought a back-up camera AND parktronic (aka backup sensors) were redundant -- now, after seeing the around view monitor PLUS front and rear parktronic (on my wife's Infiniti), I can hardly imagine not having AT LEAST a back-up camera and parktronic. Actually, I wish I had front and rear parktronic like my wife's 2005 and 2008 BMWs had on them.
 
Torque vectoring? Yep, it is rapidly overtaking both plain ol' Quattro and ATTESA as THE drive-line must have.
 
6,7,8 and more speed transmissions -- you guessed it: Must have.
 
Tires that auto-correct for under (or over) inflation: #1 Coming soon; #2 Must have (think of the billions of dollars of fuel alone this tech will save.)
 
Auto shut off and restart after full stop: ditto.
 
Heated AND Cooled (ventilated) seats: need you even ask?
 
In-car communications systems that when activated automatically turn down ventilation fans to assure the voice command systems "hear" the commands you give with nearly zero errors? Ya think?
 
ABS PLUS brake assist? You bet.
 
Electrochromic mirrors? Certainly damn near vital. . . .
 
And the beat goes on.

#12441 of 16087 Re: New 3 series [billyperksii] by kdshapiro

Nov 08, 2011 (1:35 pm)

Replying to: billyperksii (Nov 08, 2011 6:44 am)
The Acura has been in it's current form since 2009, like the G37 has been around for a few years.
 
The interior of the Acura is busy in my opinion, made me feel like a cockpit. On the other hand, the interior of a G with the accents is soothing.
 
I feel lost in the Acura, I have a nice cozy feeling in the G.
 
SH-AWD makes the Acura perform as well as the rest of the ELLPSs, over the FWD, as it is a nose heavy car, which is why I say it really hasn't moved forward.
 
Car buying is so subjective, to each their own.

#12442 of 16087 Re: New 3 series [markcincinnati] by kdshapiro

Nov 08, 2011 (1:37 pm)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Nov 08, 2011 1:23 pm)
I can live without TPMS, my wifes 5 year car has it, but I can live without it.
 
You forgot HID headlights.

#12443 of 16087 Re: New 3 series [markcincinnati] by ivan_99

Nov 08, 2011 (1:50 pm)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Nov 08, 2011 1:23 pm)
Auto shut off and restart after full stop: ditto.
 
I maybe ol'school regarding this...But I recall countless statements regarding the life of engines and how they could run in perpetuity...if it were not for the "starting"; which is where all the wear occurs. I've also read that they've engineered for this and it doesn't cause additional wear (but I just don't believe it)
 
It's like having sensors in the car that would monitor your blinking...so it could turn off your headlights for that brief moment to save some precious energy...maybe my example is a bit too extreme
 
but i'll pass on both

#12444 of 16087 Re: New 3 series [kdshapiro] by markcincinnati

Nov 08, 2011 (2:03 pm)

Replying to: kdshapiro (Nov 08, 2011 1:37 pm)
Didn't forget them at all . . . just thought my [subjective] point had been made.
 
Hell, I grew up where only rich people's cars had A/C and power windows. My dad got a new Plymouth in 1969 with power steering -- but no power brakes. And even though it was the top of the line Plymouth Satellite with a 318 V8 (the 383 and Hemi were reserved for the Road Runner and the 440 was for the GTX), it didn't have factory air -- so my dad had the dealer install aftermarket A/C which meant the front bench seat could only seat two instead of three because of the "device" (the blowing unit) that was installed that stuck way out into the passenger area.
 
The first time I got a car with power steering, brakes AND windows, I knew I had become a member of "the club." That car was a 1976 Chrysler Cordoba with fine Corithian Leather (how many remember that reference?)
 
It still had an AM only radio though, but with a speaker in the rear deck it was "upscale" befitting someone of my stature (in "the club," of course.)
 
And, man o' man, when I got a car that had a rear window defroster (which was a slit in the rear deck through which air was blown by a motor located in the trunk), well, peel me a grape, Mabel.
 
Power door locks engendered a similar reaction when I got a 4-door car with FRONT only power door locks (and, as I recall, FRONT only power windows, too.) The dome light only came on when you opened a FRONT door, on this car -- probably saved $.50 per door to omit the rear on/off switch.
 
When I got an Audi with an infra-red remote (who's dumbass idea was THAT, anyway? -- infra-red, geesh) -- I had another grape peeling moment as well.
  
These days its power everything on virtually every car -- and even if you didn't want these assists, well, it would be virtually impossible to NOT have them.
 
My 1978 Audi 5000 was my first car with heated seats -- I used to take people for rides in the car and secretly turn on the seat heaters. . .why? Because back then heated seats were rare (and novel.)
 
I also didn't forget articulating headlights, nor did I forget bi-xenons (which the Acura TL lacks, strangely.)
 
Memories. . .memories. . . .

#12445 of 16087 Re: New 3 series [ivan_99] by markcincinnati

Nov 08, 2011 (2:19 pm)

Replying to: ivan_99 (Nov 08, 2011 1:50 pm)
You may be right about your longevity concern -- I really don't know. What I have read, however, is that the full stop, engine shut off, then engine restart when "the light changes" will save countless gallons of fuel once this tech is widespread.
 
Perhaps there is little to be concerned with about the engine -- I would, however, wonder if the constant restarting of the engine would not be hard on the starter MOTOR?
 
In any case, I assume this auto shut off will be placed in widespread use as we strive to save every drop of fuel we can by almost any and every means even remotely possible.
 
Somewhere I read that there is a patent on a technology that "warms up" the transmission when the car is started COLD; this warm transmission apparently yields a bit more MPG's, and, over the life of the car, this "bit more" adds up. It is especially interesting when one extrapolates this to millions of cars and finds that the annual savings ends up being a governmental sum of money and fuel saved (so they say.)
 
Fuel saving tires have been in production and use for years (you can tell I watch too much TV) -- even though the savings per car are only a few drops of fuel annually (but again when extrapolated to millions of cars, these drops become a big deal and big bucks.)
 
Mostly (which is NOT the same as entirely) I am for virtually all new technolgies and also for the upgrading of "older" technologies to make them "better" (and greener, too, if possible). When a new technology is found to be wasteful, harmful or just plain inappropriate though, I am all for scrapping it, beginning a new project or exploring a new idea and moving forward.

#12446 of 16087 Re: New 3 series [markcincinnati] by kdshapiro

Nov 08, 2011 (2:22 pm)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Nov 08, 2011 2:03 pm)
I remember when my father had an Audi 5000 and Audi 4000 side by side in the garage. After the 4000 he got a Legend. Yep, memories.

#12447 of 16087 Re: New 3 series [markcincinnati] by shipo

Nov 08, 2011 (2:43 pm)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Nov 08, 2011 2:19 pm)
Regarding the whole Start/Stop thing while sitting stopped at a light or some such, I don't think it will affect engine longevity at all. Why? Because the bulk of engine wear comes when cold starting an engine where the lubricant has had a considerable amount of time to drain down into the sump; a couple of minutes at a light just isn't all that long in the grand scheme of things.
 
Other fuel economy related thoughts:
 
I find the concentration on things like transmission oil temperatures for improving fuel economy curious, and if I might be so bold, highly questionable. From my perspective, for a relatively modest investment (compared to the potential gain), it makes sense to me to harvest the latent heat radiating off the exhaust system to power the various subsystems of the vehicle. I'm thinking there is many-many times the necessary power lost in the form of radiated heat to drive the electricals, the power assist pumps, the A/C compressor, and even the valve train (electrically or hydraulically).
 
Remove the mechanical load of all of those components from the engine and fuel economy should easily see a double-digit percentage gain. The only company which has announced such a research project is BMW; hopefully it will become a reality sooner than later.

#12448 of 16087 Genesis? by graphicguy

Nov 11, 2011 (7:38 am)

I know there was quite a stir when the Hyundai Genesis came out. Don't know if it fits in this discussion, but I actually had test driven one when they first came out. Nice "first" effort at a lux car by Hyundai (they really should change their name for cars sold in the U.S.).
 
Well, I got my first chance to drive one for an extensive period of time. It was a rental (Enterprise). It was the 6 cyl model with what looked like the middle of the options package (everything but Nav).
 
First, it's a BIG car.
 
It drove fine....actually, it drove pretty good. I was in Milwaukee (OshKosh) WI with it when it snowed for the first time this Fall. It handled the snow and slush just fine.
 
The suspension that everyone bitched about isn't bad...at least not as bad as I had read about here at Edmunds. Yes, there are some road surfaces that cause an unrefined chassis feeling, but for the most part, it was fine....similar to a Mercedes E, without the unrefined part.
 
There were some things where hitting their price point caused some short cuts. If that's real wood in the cabin, the trees they used must have been very sick. The seats are....well....they're wide....certainly not very comfortable (and on the opposite end of the seats you'd find in the TL SH AWD or my 335i....both are great). The lighting is superb in the cabin.
 
They spend the money on the drivetrain, you can tell. The engine is responsive and sounds uber refined. The transmission shifts seamlessly and is ready to kick down when needed.
 
All the switches feel richer than they should, and operate with a smoothness that was unexpected.
 
All-in-all a nice first effort. Came close to mimicking the A6, Mercedes E, Lexus LS, (not really in the same category as a BMW 5 from both a dynamic and performance category). Not quite hit the nail on the head, but relatively close for a lot less money.

#12449 of 16087 Re: New 3 series [billyperksii] by sweendogy

Nov 12, 2011 (6:36 am)

Replying to: billyperksii (Nov 07, 2011 7:51 am)
Infiniti is getting left behind? Your comments again have no basis- look at the reviews and sales numbers- hello. What do I think? Well I think you are not a good car picker and if you worked at a brokerage like you say I would not let you pick a stock either. You bot a Mazda milleneum, nuf said. Good luck with the next car, made you should wait I hear Cadillac bringing back the cimarron.

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