Last post on Dec 06, 2013 at 7:58 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
Oct 10, 2011 (12:57 pm)
At the price point and at the "class" (ELLPS) we are talking about, the value leaders remain Infiniti and Acura. More content and by some definition, I'm sure, more car for the money when you're comparing Infiniti to BMW (which seems to be the comparison that "everybody" makes); I think I'll compare Acura to Audi, for the time being -- it seems somehow to work for me.
The G37XS was a car I wanted to like -- but I was smitten with the M37X which seems to me to be priced (lease price per month) at about what an Audi A4 2.0T Prestige goes for or what a BMW 335 (with x-drive and a fair amount of options) goes for. The G37XS after coming from an Audi A4 (2009 vintage) seemed "cramped" -- too narrow and with, apparently, no expanse of hood to speak of.
Yet, the G was pretty well loaded and was very spunky -- gobs of power, albeit with a little harshness as the RPM's moved toward red-line (neither the Audi or BMW engine seem harsh.) Had the car been at least 2" WIDER, I might have gone Infiniti rather than Acura. I certainly feel Infiniti, as a brand, has the LPS "vision" (whatever the hell THAT means) whereas neither Lexus nor Acura seem to have much of a clue.
But, I got behind the wheel of the TL Advance and it WAS wider, I could see a hood out through the front window and there was no harshness in the engine compartment and the sound of the 3.7L at full cry is quite pleasing. Too bad the TL isn't quite as quick feeling as the G -- but man, the TL has the G in smoothness -- the TL is like butta!
I am growing, slowly, very slowly, to accept the looks of the TL (exterior), I am pleased with the interior -- the seats are almost Audi quality and they are ventilated (a must have, I am almost embarrassed to say.)
The TL is -- on paper -- damn near the perfect definition of an ELLPS (but ONLY in Advance trim or Tech trim with a 6 speed, based on reviews -- and ONLY if it is SH-AWD equipped.) Here's a 1,500 mile review:
Smooth and quiet: check
Feels bigger than it is: check
Is, technially, bigger than some of the others in this class: check, check
Best factory sound system ever: check
Very quick, very responsive transmission (especially with the paddle shifters): check
Thick, meaty steering wheel, great "sporty" seats: check, check
Feature set is at least as good as the other ELLPS's: check
Torque Vectoring reduces (a lot) the sensation of understeer: check
Decent Gas Mileage (combined 26 according to the center display): check (this thing is almost stingy with gas, in fact): check
And the list of positive attributes could go on and on.
I do like driving the TL -- very much -- I don't regret getting it, especially at $499/mo plus tax, and, so far, the dealer seems terrific (Lindsay Acura, Columbus, Oh.)
However, the sum of its parts pretty much equals, er, the sum of its parts. Audi and BMW (and I'll assume Mercedes) somehow seem to imbue their cars with "something" that makes them feel like MORE than the sum of their parts.
It's not that the TL seems flimsy or not stiff and firm -- it does. But there is something that is lacking -- something that a new A4 Prestige Sport or a new 335 x-drive will have and you will notice instantly. In some ways, for the price, the TL outdoes (content wise) both Audi and BMW by a wide margin. In other ways, the TL seems like the best damn appliance Electrolux ever made -- take it away Kelly Ripa! 34 payments to go. . .
#12255 of 16984 Re: Japanese vs Germans [markcincinnati]
Oct 10, 2011 (12:32 pm)
Mark....you and I have the same tastes and opinions. I agree with your entire assessment. Although, I liked the styling of the TL. It was bold, and not to be confused with anything else. That was a winner in my book.
Who knows, another TL may grace the GG estate in the future. It just won't be in the near future.
Have fun with your TL. Sounds like you're really starting to enjoy it.
#12256 of 16984 Re: Japanese vs Germans [graphicguy]
Oct 10, 2011 (1:06 pm)
Mine is pearl white -- and since it is a 2012, the beak is pretty much subdued to begin with and in white, the effect of the beak reduction is even more so.
From the side with a slight angle so that you can see just a part of the front end, the thing looks good -- not great, but good. The changes to the rear were just what the doctor ordered too -- I don't really have too many complaints.
Overall the styling has risen to "OK" -- and when I'm behind the wheel on a twisty road with the transmission selector set to "S" and using the paddle shifters like I know what I'm doing (I don' really, of course), I have a big stupid grin on my face -- I'm already planning on new UHP super sticky tires to replace the kind of tepid tires the thing came with.
I'll bet new shoes will further transform my ugly duckling into. . .an only slightly homely swan?
#12257 of 16984 Re: Japanese vs Germans [markcincinnati]
Oct 10, 2011 (1:24 pm)
cincyreadmark.. good review update on the TL- i agree the 2012 is better looking car and acura should fire the designers of the 08-11 editions. What took them so long to fix this thing.? I think this car as you outfitted is a solid midpack performer and if you add price in the formula it is a good option. The thing that surprised me was 26mpg - thats great.
#12258 of 16984 Re: Graphicguy [sweendogy]
Oct 10, 2011 (1:45 pm)
You are throwing the whole equation off by only driving few miles. The average person drives 15-20K a year. But we can agree to disagree.
#12259 of 16984 Re: Graphicguy [graphicguy]
Oct 10, 2011 (2:02 pm)
You may want to check out this company in Northern Ca, called Vishnu. They have made a name for themselves with the Subaru WRX but when BMW came with twin turbo engine they knew the potential how does 11.502 125.893 for the 1/4 mile... Their upgrades are very reasonable for 40-60 RWH the cost is about $2000. This is what their website says:
Power gains will vary based upon available octane, additional modifications and conditions. Typical gains on an otherwise stock n54 powered BMW running on 91-93 octane fuel are 70-80 wheel horsepower and 80-90ft-lbs of torque. With additional basic modifications (exhaust, intercooler and intake upgrades) and higher octane racing fuel, gains of 160-170 wheel horsepower and 200-210ft-lbs of torque can be expected. With upgraded turbos, gains as high as 250whp are possible.
Oct 10, 2011 (4:12 pm)
They must have really upgraded the mpg. I got a combined 19 mpg in my 2010 AWD TL.
Great comment about how it leaves you happy but not thrilled. It's why I'm in a 335i now.
Definitely the best stereo ever.
#12262 of 16984 Re: Graphicguy [sweendogy]
by kyfdx@Edmunds HOST
Oct 10, 2011 (5:09 pm)
Well.. prepaid scheduled maintenance plan for a C-Class or an A4 is around $800.. (but for just three years, not four), so that's one place to start... Mercedes says that's about a 30% discount from actual.. If that's the case, then you could extrapolate that to about $1500 for four years (to match BMW).
Also, most of the other plans don't cover brakes, if needed... so, another thing to factor in.. (in BMW's favor)..
#12263 of 16984 Re: Graphicguy [kyfdx]
Oct 10, 2011 (7:06 pm)
Regarding maintenance - My TSX has just over 41K miles on it & I've had to take it in for 5 full synthetic oil changes + tire rotations around $100. The rear brakes had to be changed (I was partially reimbursed through a class action lawsuit). I had to have the front rotors resurfaced once already. That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
Mark - your TL SH AWD Advance shows a big benefit to leasing. The lease payment on your almost $50,000 TL Advanced is less than the payment on my Close to $34K TSX. YMMV - literally