Last post on Dec 06, 2013 at 7:58 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
Sep 29, 2011 (7:54 pm)
markincincinnati & graphicguy
Funny how the 3 of us are at opposite ends of the financial spectrum in our lives, yet have similar tastes & tolerances when it comes to cars.
The seats in my TSX is one thing that I absolutely LOVE! They are thickly bolstered, firm, & super comfortable. They do a fantastic job keeping my narrow, 150 lb rear end from sliding around during aggressive handling maneuvers.
The main thing that fueled the purchase of my TSX was fuel economy. Back in August 2009 I had a 1990 BMW 325i I bought about a year earlier that wouldn't pass NY state inspection & my trusted mechanic told me I should either find a new engine or start paying him to tear the car's Inline 6 apart to find out what was wrong.
Cash 4 Clunkers came about and I realized my car qualified for a $3500 rebate. I was also going to need a car in the next year because the lease on our 2007 X3 was going to end & we were in danger of going way over our 45,000 allotted miles.
So I wanted a car that drove great, had a roomy back seat (for our 2 child safety seats), & a generously sized trunk (to accommodate our double stroller).
I headed straight to an Audi dealer to drive an A4 Avant. I drove a Premium model & thought it was OK, nothing special. I was also frightened at the prospect of owning an Audi for the long haul.
I went an drove a Mini Cooper S Clubman which I didn't like. A very awkward car. Lots of blindspots. Lifeless and very disconnected electric power steering. Rubbery shifter. Clutch with a high take up point.
I then stopped by an Acura dealer, drove the TSX & said to myself, I really like this car. It drives like a 4 door version of my 2001 Prelude Type SH. It is by no means perfect, but for the price, it rocks.
I've got 2 sons (5 & 2 1/2) and a daughter on the way in early December. Cars are expensive (especially the ones I like). Right now I do too much driving (TSX is 2 years old & has over 40K, while Pilot is 4 months old with 7,000 miles) to lease. Leasing is also very expensive. Nor can I afford to buy cash & trade every 2-3 years.
I plan to pay off my car loans in 5 years & keep them for at least 10 years (assuming no mechanical catastrophies or god forbid accidents) so we can (re)build our savings towards retirement & our Children's college educations.
I've owned exclusively new cars since I got my license at 16 (besides my E30 BMW which was a project car). I love the way BMWs drive so much that if something happens to my Acura, I'd look for a CPO BMW 335 with the N55 in a heartbeat.
#12156 of 16984 Re: A4, Acura, 3er [nyccarguy]
Sep 30, 2011 (4:01 am)
flightnurse....having test driven a couple of S4s, and having owned a TL SH AWD, I can honestly say that the TL SH AWD is closer to the S4 than Audi would care to admit. Then, there's the big price delta that you have to consider.
Mark.....I did indeed find both the A4 (S-line) and S4 "softer" than the TL. Not that it's a bad thing....just something I noticed. I really loved the TL SH AWD's seats....some of the best in any car I've owned. They hold you well without cramping. Or, maybe my body type is best made for Acura's sport seats.
NYC....IIRC, I think I've got a decade or so in age on you. However, I can see you going down my same car desire path. If you don't have any more children (go ahead, have a bunch more), you'll get out of the "I need a people hauler" mode and start bouncing around the top German and Japanese lux brands as your preferences.
Don't see you in a Lexus. I can see you in a TL, or another 3, probably a 5er at some point.....maybe an A6.
#12157 of 16984 Re: A4, Acura, 3er [nyccarguy]
Sep 30, 2011 (5:23 am)
Graphicguy makes some good points. I'm about 10 years ahead of you too...
My daughter will get her learner's permit next year and I've already started teaching her how to drive a stick on the weekends (yes, in the M3!). The family dynamic will change permanently when she starts driving.
We got the V70 with 3rd row almost 8 years ago and it's been a great family hauler, but when my daughter starts driving, we have some choices to make. Keep the wagon and give it to her?
Also, my wife hates the M3 - refuses to drive it except as a last resort. I've started thinking that it's selfish of me to keep it around if I'm the only one who is ever going to drive it. Plus, I have a company car for work, so I only drive the M on weekends or when the sun's out and I get a hankering. It sits in the garage with a trickle charger for most of the winter.
So we could keep the Volvo and sell the M3. Let my daughter use the Volvo and get a 911 or 135i or something for me and my wife to share.
We could sell the Volvo and the M3 and get a 135i plus a Subaru Outback.
We could keep both the Volvo and the M3 and get a 3rd car like a Focus or Cruze for my daughter.
Whatever we decide, there are definitely some confusing issues with the changing family dynamic and the car market. Cars are crazy expensive now and like you (and others here), the cars I like are expensive. I would rather not spend $50k on a car, but nothing I have looked at that I like costs less than $40k.
I was a new car buyer for many years too, but since I started driving BMW's (my E30 325i was my first one 7 years ago), I can't help thinking there's no value in it. I might try a CPO car next to add some value to the process.
Whatever we decide, trading and buying a new car every 3 years is definitely out. I love the fact that the Volvo is paid for and 8 years old, and my wife stills loves the car. The Volvo experience has taught me to buy the most car I can afford and keep it as long as possible.
#12158 of 16984 expensive cars
Sep 30, 2011 (5:42 am)
I've pretty much given up on the idea of ever having a new car again, personally. And with as often as I trade, it is probably for the best anyway.
#12159 of 16984 Re: A4, Acura, 3er [graphicguy]
Sep 30, 2011 (7:25 am)
Interesting, having driven a couple of S4 myself and a new TL-SH AWD I thought the S4 was by far the better car, the Audi did not lean as much as the TL in corners and I thought the Quattro system was set up for more rear wheel bias then the Acrua. I also thought the Acrua didn't have the low end grunt that the Audi had too. However the looks of the Acrua even after a mid refresh to me is just ugly, its hard to beat the Audis in looks and overall design.
#12160 of 16984 Re: " Not even close in comparison... "
Sep 30, 2011 (12:15 pm)
Well, having driven both the S4 and the TL back to back, I can say they are close, if you don't consider the price -- the TL is, IMHO, kind of an Audi AS4, if such an animal actually was available from Audi.
Of the Audi S4 and Acura TL, Automobile Magazine said:
"If it seems like neither car can pull an advantage here without the other catching up, you've been paying attention. The final equalizer is that, comparably equipped, the Audi costs nearly $11,500 more than the Acura. That kind of money can buy the TL a serious brake upgrade. But the price difference isn't much of a factor here, since we've never actually heard of someone cross-shopping a TL and an S4."
Well, I sorta did. . .
"The Acura is blessed with nearly perfect cornering balance, so its rear differential can easily and dramatically alter the car's handling attitude. It takes a little while to build up trust in the system, but you soon realize that if the car can handle any amount of power in the middle of a turn, it can handle anything the V-6 can throw at it. There's no reason to be scared of the right pedal-the TL begs you to steer it with the throttle. The more power you add, the more neutral the TL's cornering balance and the faster it scrambles through turns. Indeed, the Acura was faster than the Audi through nearly every single corner at BeaveRun."
"It's beside the point to declare a winner or loser when comparing two cars that fall into such different hands in the real world. As that most rabid of enthusiasts, you already have your own prejudices and opinions based on the brands alone, not to mention the countries from which they hail. If we could combine the Audi's good looks, brakes, and tupercharged V-6 with the Acura's steering, handling, and all-wheel-drive system, we'd have discovered luxury car nirvana for the enthusiast driver. In the absence of that elusive hybrid, we walk away from these two wolves in sheepish skins knowing that they are absolute equals in one way: the ability to reassure us that there is, in fact, life after Evo."
0-60 mph: 5.0 sec
0-100 mph: 11.5 sec
0-110 mph: 13.5 sec
0-120 mph: 16.4 sec
0-130 mph: 19.7 sec
0-140 mph: 23.4 sec
0-150 mph: 28.6 sec
1/4-mile (sec mph): 13.5 110
30-70 mph passing: 5.7 sec
Peak g: 0.69 g
0-60 mph: 5.4 sec
0-100 mph: 13.5 sec
0-110 mph: 16.3 sec
0-120 mph: 20.5 sec
0-130 mph: 24.9 sec
0-140 mph: *
0-150 mph: *
1/4-mile (sec mph): 14.1 102
30-70 mph passing: 6.8 sec
peak g: 0.66 g
kliky here for the full deal:
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1008_2010_acura_tl_sh_awd_vs_2010_au- - di_s4/index.html
#12161 of 16984 Mark, GG, & Fedlawman
Sep 30, 2011 (6:30 pm)
Fedlawman - if for some reason you do have to part ways with your beloved E30 M3, I don't think a 135i is the car for you. Do yourself a favor & get a 911.
BTW, speaking of women & M3s, I was pumping gas into my Pilot yesterday & a woman in her 50's pulls up next to me in a 1997 E36 M3 Sedan. 5 speed, Motorsport wheels. She gets out & I tell her I really like her car. She goes on to tell me she's the original owner & the car has over 200,000 miles on it. It has never once been in the shop for anything other than regular maintenance.
Graphicguy - There is a saying, "Never say never.". I will never own a Lexus. We don't plan on having anymore kids. I know eventually I won't need a people mover.
Sep 30, 2011 (8:04 pm)
I like your opinion on the Audi Drive Select. So you'd take a $50,000 A4 2.0T with Audi Drive Select (trick rear diff) over a $50,000 S4 without it?
#12163 of 16984 Re: Acura vs. The Germans [fedlawman] and Billyperks
Oct 01, 2011 (5:53 am)
why are they baseless? just because it's got a Acura badge and not Honda does not make it a sports sedan - sporty 'er' yes. but same platform and drive train, so I don't get your point. the a4 and vw platform - well the current line of vw does not have quarto or 4 motion on the sedans. I would say that's a major difference. the 3 series comment now thats baseless.
Billy until acura changes it's boring style they will continue to fail- the brand has lost significant share in the space . numbers don't lie.
#12164 of 16984 Re: Acura vs. The Germans [fedlawman] and Billyperks [sweendogy]
Oct 01, 2011 (8:06 am)
I'm not talking about the badge on the hood.
You haven't explained why you think the Accord platform is less suited to underpinning a sport sedan than the VW/Audi platform or the BMW 3-series platform.
Is it not as rigid? Is the suspension geometry inferior?