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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16087 messages,  Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1216 of 1610

#12144 of 16087 Re: Acura vs. The Germans [nyccarguy] by tlong

Sep 28, 2011 (1:46 pm)

Replying to: nyccarguy (Sep 28, 2011 1:28 pm)
I had a 1998 A4 (6 cyl) and have an '05 TL. Differences between the two:
 
- TL has more electronic goodies (but 7 year newer car)
- TL poorer handler, wallows in turns
- TL's climate control much quieter
- Audi interior clearly nicer
- Audi control feel and driving feel clearly better
- Audi inspired much more passion
- Audi extremely expensive to maintain, the few things that broke were a LOT
- Acura has been outstandingly reliable and cheap to maintain

#12145 of 16087 Re: Acura vs. The Germans [nyccarguy] by sweendogy

Sep 28, 2011 (6:02 pm)

Replying to: nyccarguy (Sep 28, 2011 1:28 pm)
Breaks are not the only thing that makes the acura tsx less expensive. 4 vtek which is in every other honda product prob being the biggest saver of money for the acura car, lets not forget the accord platform. Its not really a sports sedan but more of a sporty sedan, as 90% of them are sold with automatics. (same thing with the TL, nice rig for sure but not a true sports sedan- even in sh-awd form) Closest to the germans is Infiniti by far-- rear wheel drive, good breaks, sports packages, manual transmissions (which are sadly going away) . Cars from the far east are closer then they have ever been but its going to be interesting to see what car companies do in the upcoming years as they need to keep up with MPG mandates - I know BMW will be bringing a 4cy to the states soon, Acura can use the turbo 4 it already produces, infiniti will team with MB for its next line of engines, should be interesting.

#12146 of 16087 Re: Acura vs. The Germans [sweendogy] by nyccarguy

Sep 28, 2011 (6:57 pm)

Replying to: sweendogy (Sep 28, 2011 6:02 pm)
I might be mistaken, but off the top of my head the only other Honda Product that uses the exact same motor (2.4L - 201 hp - 176 lb/ft torque) is the Civic Si.
 
I'll agree with you that under extreme circumstances, my TSX shows it's Accord Platform roots. We have some seriously twisty back roads here in southwestern Connecticut. There's one particular road where the sign shows "S" curves for 1 mile with a 15 mph suggested speed limit. My TSX shows the flaws in it's chassis.
 
Like many here have said, price aside, I'd choose a BMW.
 
Every single car in this segment shines in it's own way. A 3 series equipped like my TSX (or even a TL) costs significantly more, has a smaller back seat, & a smaller trunk.
 
The 3 series is sharper, handles better, drives much better overall.

#12147 of 16087 Re: Acura vs. The Germans [tlong] by ivan_99

Sep 28, 2011 (7:57 pm)

Replying to: tlong (Sep 28, 2011 1:46 pm)
heh...it's a little hard to compare a 98 A4 with even an 05 A4...model change in 02 then again in 05.

#12148 of 16087 Re: Acura vs. The Germans [sweendogy] by fedlawman

Sep 28, 2011 (8:13 pm)

Replying to: sweendogy (Sep 28, 2011 6:02 pm)
These references to the Accord platform and Acura's not being a true sport sedan are baseless.
 
So all those Audi A4's built on the Volkswagon B6 platform aren't sport sedans either?
 
And I suppose the BMW 3-series isn't really a sport sedan because it shares a platform with an SUV and a FWD car?

#12149 of 16087 Re: Acura vs. The Germans [ivan_99] by tlong

Sep 28, 2011 (9:22 pm)

Replying to: ivan_99 (Sep 28, 2011 7:57 pm)
heh...it's a little hard to compare a 98 A4 with even an 05 A4...model change in 02 then again in 05.
 
I don't think the general characteristics between Acura and Audi (driving feel, interiors, costs, reliability) have changed in any fundamental way over the time period.

#12150 of 16087 Re: Acura vs. The Germans [tlong] by ivan_99

Sep 29, 2011 (1:00 am)

Replying to: tlong (Sep 28, 2011 9:22 pm)
I do...way back, I had a 97 A4 and it felt, drove, smelled...very differently from the 05's. Not vastly like going from a Hummer H1 to a Fiat 500...
 
I originally intended to convey that a 05 TL should be compared to a 05 A4...even if the 'old' Audi was superior in specific categories.
 
Reliability: Last time I compared JD Powers manufacturers reliability the "new" Audi's were on par (problems per 100 vehicles) with Toyota's from 5 years ago.

#12151 of 16087 Re: Acura vs. The Germans [nyccarguy] by graphicguy

Sep 29, 2011 (8:16 am)

Replying to: nyccarguy (Sep 28, 2011 1:28 pm)
nyc.....interesting compare and contrast. My BMW does indeed drive better than my TL SH AWD. That said, the TL was no slouch. Neither were the TSX and RSX I had as loaners. Acura captures a good amount of the BMW feel.
 
Also, little things I've noticed....the HVAC in my TL was better in getting to, and holding temps, hot or cold, with no "fried feet" or "frozen nose" affect.
 
My 335i is fast....very fast....and will let me corner at any speed that my nerves will allow.
 
Seats were better in the TL. If you care, the stereo in the TL was a big step up vs the one in my 3 (which is actually the upgraded Harmon Kardon stereo). I've driven a lot of premium cars. The stereo in the TL tech package surpasses all of them, by a pretty fair margin.
 
Transmission (autos)....hands down better in the 3....which has one of the best I've ever experienced.
 
Build quality, the BMW gets the nod. As good as Acura is (and Acura is very, very good), BMW is better with gaps, paint, etc.
 
Reliability, hard to say, this is my 3rd BMW and I never had any issues with any of them. But, I've had 3 Acuras, too. Never had any issues with any of them, either.
 
I know me, though. 3 years down the road, I'll be looking for something else.
 
However, given what I'm hearing that 4 cyl (even with turbos) will be the calling card for BMW, I'd probably look elsewhere.
 
I'm fearful powerful 6es, with turbos, gobs of torque everywhere, may not be in BMW's radar in a few years. Hope that's not the case, though.
 
The motor in my 335i is one of the sweetest I've ever driven, as was the 3.7L in the TL.

#12152 of 16087 Re: Acura vs. The Germans [sweendogy] by billyperksii

Sep 29, 2011 (8:49 am)

Replying to: sweendogy (Sep 28, 2011 6:02 pm)
Still putting down Acuras but always inquiring about the next generation TL.
Its either you love the brand or just shop somewhere else.

#12153 of 16087 After 29, yes, 29 Audis. . . by markcincinnati

Sep 29, 2011 (1:48 pm)

. . .I can tell you that the Acura is not an Audi (DOH!) but as mine is equipped (2012 TL SH-AWD Advance Package), it is a capable car. Believable as an EL Luxury Performance Sedan -- totally believable. It would be more believeable if Acura had chosen the best available Ultra High Performance A/S shoes instead of the "OK" Goodyear RS-A's. My 2009 Audi A4 was special ordered with the sport package, which at the time included 19" 35 series Max Performance Dunlops, Sport Seats and 3 Spoke Sport steering wheel with paddle shifters, and a lowered and stiffened suspension. I also configured mine with a $3,000 option called Audi Drive Select which would actually further stiffen the ride via firming the shocks when you pressed Dynamic mode.
 
I was given, many times, 2009, 2010 and 2011 A4 Premium Plus versions as loaners -- none of them had sport packages or Audi Drive Select.
 
A new A4, even in Prestige dress (but without the sport package option or SLine and Audi Drive Select), feels softer and demonstrates greater body roll than my new TL. A new A4 minus the sport package lacks the bolstered seats (which the TL has) and any attempt to throw the car into curves causes your butt to slip slide away and the A4 in standard suspension trim demonstrates a fair amount of body roll. Meanwhile the TL grips you as you accelerate hard whilst in a corner and the torque vectoring makes the car damn near PIVOT through the corner.
 
The TL is not an A4 and it is, duh, also not an S4. However when talking about these cars' abilities in the twisties, the TL behaves more like an A4 with the SLine or Sport Package and pulls hard enough to "allow you to imagine" IMAGINE you are feeling the urge that accompanies pressing the accelerator of an S4 way south. In other words, the TL is caught somewhere between an A4 2.0T Prestige with the Sport Package and Audi Drive Select and an S4 Prestige with the sport differential.
 
Given a magic wand, I would have the S4 Prestige with ADS+Sport Diff -- in a hearbeat.
 
But, without magic, the $12,000 difference (that the S4 commands) tends to change one's mind.
 
This time, even the A4 2.0T Prestige w/Sport priced me out of the Audi market -- especially AFTER I had driven the TL Advance back to back with a 2011 A4 (which, admittedly did NOT have the sport package.)
 
That it takes -- essentially -- a $50,000+ Audi A4 SLine (mine lacked SLine trim bits) to subjectively feel as performance oriented as the TL Advance, says SOMETHING about Acura -- yet, at this point in my experience (1,000 miles), I'm not exactly sure what that something is.
 
The next gen TL is probably the one to make me a repeat and perhaps long-term believer or make me somehow pony up the coin for another Audi.

Messages Page 1216 of 1610

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