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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16251 messages,  Last post on Jun 18, 2013 at 7:02 AM

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1208 of 1626

#12063 of 16251 Re: In the market... [jerseyguy77] TSX by markcincinnati

Sep 19, 2011 (2:56 pm)

Replying to: jerseyguy77 (Sep 11, 2011 6:35 pm)
I wonder why you test drove the Acura TSX but not the Acura TL. I am no expert in this field, but it seems to me the TL probably compares "better" to an Audi A4, BMW 3, Cadillac CTS and Infiniti G (etc, etc). After having owned 29 Audis, I sent emails to dealers requesting quotes on an Acura TL "advance" AWD, an Audi A4 Prestige with sport package, an Infiniti (also with several packages including Sport AWD), and a Volvo S60 T6 with several packages to make it comparable to the Audi/Acura Prestige/Advance packages. I was planning to make my decision based on the best deal I could get on any one of these.
 
Although I did look at a TSX, it seemed a step down from the others I mentioned at the beginning of this post -- not a bad car, but more in line with an Audi A3 or perhaps an Infiniti G25 or a more basic version of some other car lines aspirational cars.
 
A point is that, to me, all of the cars in this class were contenders and I drove all of them (excluding the MB, why I can't recall). Three of the cars stood out as high performers (four, actually, but I'll get to that in a moment): the Acura TL SH-AWD Advance, the Audi A4 Prestige with Sport package and 8-spd Tiptronic and the Volvo S60 T6 with several packages to increase its lux content levels to that of the Audi and the Acura. The fourth car that didn't make it to the finals was the G37X S -- a car I wanted to want, since I am so impressed with my wife's 2011 FX35/Premium (to say nothing of the $1,000 loyalty bonus).
 
The G didn't make it because it seemed so much smaller than the rest. I later figured out why -- it is less than 70" wide, and it just seems cramped from behind the wheel. The TL, for instance is 74" wide and has a 63.8" track compared to the G's 60.2" track.
 
I made my decision, after 29 Audis in a row, based on price per month. I was ready to take (and I wanted) an Audi A4 first, the TL second and the Volvo third. I test drove the heck out of the cars (and I currently have a 2009 Audi A4 Prestige Sport) and determined that the Audi remained my fave (but, just barely, as the other two were very close.) Yet, both the Acura and the Volvo were so much more powerful and actually seemed larger than the Audi, which was a plus since I often have my in-laws in the back seat.
 
When all was said and done, the Audi came in nearly $200 per month higher for 6 months longer than the Acura and the Volvo was about the same as the Audi but for 36 months to the Audi's 42.
 
I took the lowest cost alternative -- and since it came in with the Advance package it is, MSRP wise, about the same as the Audi, but has a 305HP engine, although it lacks the Audis 8 speed transmission.
 
Having tested and previously having owned an Audi S4, I came away thinking the Acura TL SH-AWD (what a mouthful) was "somewhat closer" to an S4 than it is to an A4, and for $11,500 less with similar content.
 
Sorry for the long story, but I think you should have at least tested the TL, it is a completely different car than the TSX, and seems like it would be less likely to be cross shopped with an A4 or G37, etc. The TL, on the other hand at $47,000 with "the works" is about the same price and class as the A4 and G37 (and the CTS for that matter.)
 
In any case, in the entry level sport luxury class or whatever this is, most of these cars are winners.

#12064 of 16251 Re: In the market... [jerseyguy77] TSX [markcincinnati] by carnaught

Sep 19, 2011 (4:31 pm)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Sep 19, 2011 2:56 pm)
Something else that needs to be considered with the TL are its controversial looks which most do not like and the fact that, at least with my, and many others experience, they develop numerous squeaks and rattles and the interior seats show wear prematurely. Maybe this latest TL iteration is improved with regard to those issues, however.

#12065 of 16251 Re: In the market... [ivan_99] by fedlawman

Sep 19, 2011 (5:36 pm)

Replying to: ivan_99 (Sep 19, 2011 1:27 pm)
"the most disturbing part is 20 years has gone by since 1991"
 
The E36 came out in 1991. The beginning of the end...

#12066 of 16251 Re: In the market... [jerseyguy77] TSX [markcincinnati] [carnaught] by markcincinnati

Sep 19, 2011 (7:01 pm)

Replying to: carnaught (Sep 19, 2011 4:31 pm)
The TL I was referring to is the 2012 which underwent a nose ectomy, a butt ectomy the addition of a bunch of sound deadening and a delightful 6 speed auto. It is, now, better looking -- not an Audi mind you -- but better looking without the BEAK.
 
I am, at this point, unable to comment on squeaks and rattles and premature seat wear. Are your comments based on personal experience? A couple of people at my office have Acuras and their primary comment about the cars is "they are incredibly durable." Also, at this point, the retained value of the TL is among the highest of any vehicle -- hence its terrific lease programs. I got mine which listed for $47+K with one accessory, back up sensors, for $499 per month for 36 months plus tax.
 
If money were no object, I would get an Audi S4 Prestige with the Sport Diff (torque vectoring). Since money is an object, well, I went with the Acura which seemed like a very high value.
 
I'll let you know if things start rattling and wear out prematurely.

#12067 of 16251 mark & fedlawman by nyccarguy

Sep 19, 2011 (7:02 pm)

Mark - thanks for the in depth, detailed write up. Congrats on your new TL! Enjoy it for the next 3 years until you get your next Audi.
 
Fedlawman - If it wasn't for the E36, I might have never fallen in love with BMWs. The 1st BMW I ever drove was a close friend's 1995 E36 325is with 5-Speed Stick, Sport Package, & he told me he was able to get it lowered further from the factory (individual?). It made me feel like Superman behind the wheel.

#12068 of 16251 Re: mark & fedlawman [nyccarguy] by fedlawman

Sep 19, 2011 (9:03 pm)

Replying to: nyccarguy (Sep 19, 2011 7:02 pm)
Ah, first love! I understand. My first BMW drive was my uncle's E30 325i. Plastic seats and 5-speed stick. Love at first drive.
 
I very much like certain things about the E36 too. I love the VANOS I-6 - it is so smooth and sweet sounding. And the comfort and amenities are a big step up from the E30.
 
And for the record, I think the TL is highly underrated on this forum. It may not be the best at anything, but it does so many things so very well.

#12069 of 16251 Re: mark & fedlawman [fedlawman] by plekto

Sep 19, 2011 (9:36 pm)

Replying to: fedlawman (Sep 19, 2011 9:03 pm)
Yes, the E36 is somewhat acceptable as well, since with some tweaking, it can be pushed back to 3000lbs. Add some more modern rubber and a few tweaks like beefier calipers and so on and it's pretty nice.
 
What we have now is symptomatic of the bloat-until-it-assumes-the-previous-one-size-larger-model's-place progression that seems to infect all of the makers now. This is also identical to what was happening in the 70s. Bigger and bigger and oh my word that's a huge car all of a sudden...
 
The 1 series is kind of like a E26 V 2.0 in its weight and size. It's what I would consider a sports sedan, if a bit on the heavy side.
 
But what we have now as the current crop of cars are really big bloated grocery hauling machines that just are called "sporty" because they are the smallest whales in the pod and happen to have shiny rims and big wheels attached.
 
That said, the TSX simply doesn't belong as it's just a plain vanilla "Accord" to the rest of the world. Over here, they slap Acura badges on it and raise the price. It's front wheel drive, has a plain vanilla 4 cylinder engine, and the handling is, well, standard family car. It's a NICE car, but it's not proper luxury OR proper sports.

#12070 of 16251 Re: mark & fedlawman [fedlawman] by ivan_99

Sep 19, 2011 (10:24 pm)

Replying to: fedlawman (Sep 19, 2011 9:03 pm)
And for the record, I think the TL is highly underrated on this forum. It may not be the best at anything, but it does so many things so very well.
 
Agreed...i liked the 'old' BEAK (think I'm the only one )...it had flare.
 
Plus I got the SH-AWD to over-steer...so it could be persuaded to have fun too.

#12071 of 16251 Re: In the market... [jerseyguy77] TSX [markcincinnati] [carnaught] [markcincinnati] by billyperksii

Sep 20, 2011 (6:26 am)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Sep 19, 2011 7:01 pm)
Mark- a man after my own heart, congrats on your excellent choice in value, style and performance.
I have the 2009 with the beak and butt, 25 months later and 13k miles-zero squeekes, zero seat wear and all compliments.
My salesman keeps sending me emails in regards to a swap for the 2012-NO THANKS, the 2012 IMHO is too soft-appearance wise.

#12072 of 16251 Re: mark & fedlawman [plekto] by m6user

Sep 20, 2011 (6:53 am)

Replying to: plekto (Sep 19, 2011 9:36 pm)
Has anyone noticed that people are actually bigger now than they were twenty years ago? Look at high school football teams. My god they are huge. I think carmakers have responded to some degree. Granted many people are heavier than they should be but the actual frames of each subsequent generation is larger than the previous. Add in all the safety crash protection in the frames, larger brakes, airbags, sunroofs, power everything and it makes for more size and weight in cars.
 
Some may not hear it but weight isn't the only thing that matters in a cars drivablilty.

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