Ask the Car People.SM


Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16251 messages,  Last post on Jun 18, 2013 at 7:02 AM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1170 of 1626

#11686 of 16251 Re: Trying to decide.... TL? G37? other? [dap2006] by igozoomzoom

Oct 29, 2010 (3:19 pm)

Replying to: dap2006 (Oct 29, 2010 5:10 am)
It's painful for me to admit, but the beak on the current TL is the most hideous thing I've ever seen! This is coming from someone who still can remember my first time driving my cousin's brand new 1986 Acura Legend (dark blue with gray lower accent) and realizing that it was the most special car I'd ever driven. I later owned a 1994 Acura Legend GS that was the love of my life until it was demolished by a drunk jerk driving a huge 4x4- but it saved my life. I also owned a 2002 TL Type-S that was a spectacular car in every way...until the transmission went out at 32k miles and then again after another 20k miles...I didn't want to own it if/when the third transmission failed if it was out of warranty, so I had to get rid of it. Suffice it to say, I've been an Acura-phile from the very beginning in late 1985...but the newest designs range from bland to downright vulgar (TL)....the TSX seems to suffer the least from this design 'theme'?
 
Have you considered the TSX V6 as a possible replacement for your '08 TL-S? It is less than an one-inch +/- in front and rear head, leg and hip room compared to your TL. Overall passenger volume is 94 cu ft vs. 98 cu ft for your TL, so it's only very slightly smaller. Interior cargo (luggage) volume is virtually identical at 12.6 vs. 12.5 cu ft.
 
The Infiniti G37S is almost identical in every interior measurement (head/leg/hip room) to your TL, with 99 cu ft of passenger volume and 13.5 cu ft cargo volume. So it's not smaller in any way than the TL, but the interior design or other design aspects may may it 'seem' to be...I'd give it another look before ruling it out!
 
If you are leasing, would the larger Infiniti M37 also be within the realm of possibilities? It has a boost in headroom and legroom in front and rear compared to the TL. Total passener volume is 104 cubic feet and cargo volume is 14.9 cu ft. Not sure if I like it any better than the G37S, but it might be something to consider....
 
And one other wild card that I will recommend, if a luxury 'brand' isn't esssential and you're just wanting a car that looks and performs in the same realm with most entry-level performance/luxury models- the 2011 Mazda6 s Grand Touring 4-door. The current 2010 is a very impressive vehicle, with exceptional handling and plenty of power any time you need it! The 3.7L V6 only has a 272hp rating, but it has 269lb-ft of torque (matching the torque figures for the 330hp M37 and exceeding all the other cars discussed above, despite their 280-328hp ratings). It also hits that torque peak at 4250rpm, compared to 5200rpm in both Infinitis.
 
The only two options on the 2010 MZ6 s Grand Touring are Voice-Activated Navigation and the Technology Package. The Tech Package adds Advanced Keyeless Entry & Start with push-button starting, SIRIUS sat radio, LED tail lights, Fully automatic Bi-Xenon HID headlamps, power passenger seat and rain-sensing wipers. With those two options, it is a very close match for the G37S, feature-for-feature but for $6-7k less! The 2011 model is getting a 'refresh' that willl only make the car more attractive and upscale in look and feel. It's worth a visit to the Mazda dealer one day, just to experience the car for yourself. My best friend and I took one for a test drive two weekends ago and he wasn't even in the market for a new car....but he traded his 2008 IS 250 on the spot for it! =)

#11687 of 16251 Re: Trying to decide.... TL? G37? other? [dap2006] by smarty666

Oct 29, 2010 (5:08 pm)

Replying to: dap2006 (Oct 29, 2010 5:10 am)
I can definitely feel you about the new TL. I have a 08 as well and the new one is such a turn off on the exterior for me its not even funny. If you think the G37 is small then I would not recommend a 3 Series or C-Class since they are even smaller on the inside.
 
I would recommend a Caddy CTS or like other's have mentioned the new Maxima. If your looking for the true sport sedan feel you won't get that completely with the Max due to the CVT/FWD but it definitely has got a more sport oriented handling and power. I ended up with one b/c like you did not want a G37 due to the cramped feeling when in it. The Max has plenty of room, pretty sporty body style, and you get certain features you normally can only get in luxury sedans if you get the premium packages. The leasing and financing for it are excellent and many people are getting fully loaded ones for $34-35k.
 
If that doesn't fit your bill, I would check out the Genesis but again, some people don't like the Hyundai name plate.
 
Not sure what budget or finances are for your but if possible, I would check out the new M and 5 Series as well. They are definitely going to fit your bill when it comes to size and features but you will pay more for them obviously.
 
Best of Luck!!!

#11688 of 16251 Re: Trying to decide.... TL? G37? other? [igozoomzoom] by dap2006

Oct 29, 2010 (5:16 pm)

Replying to: igozoomzoom (Oct 29, 2010 3:19 pm)
Great post! Gave me some things to think about. I haven't been an Acura fan as long as you but I had a 92 Accord that I loved and kept 12 years - I got a 2006 TL after that and then my current TL-S. I had driven the 335i before I got the TL-S and loved the drive - almost pulled the trigger but my wife had loved the Honda/Acura's (2 previous Civic's) so I caved and I went with my current ride (which is nice, don't get me wrong).
 
I'm not a Mazda fan but I'll take a look at the MZ6 to see what it looks like. I can't see me driving a Benz, though - too much coin for what you get.
 
So far I'm thinking the Audi A4/S4, G37S and M37 seem the likely suspects...

#11689 of 16251 Re: Trying to decide.... TL? G37? other? [igozoomzoom] by ivan_99

Oct 29, 2010 (11:33 pm)

Replying to: igozoomzoom (Oct 29, 2010 3:19 pm)
I loved the Mazda6 V6 as well...in the manual-auto mode I had it in 1st gear at around 4k rpm -- just going down the street. I hammered it and chirped the tires into 2nd gear.
 
Not really a marketable feature...or even worthy of purchasing it for (since it is very good overall). But a very powerful V6. Rear seat room is HUGE too.
 
LOVED the manual in the Mazda 6...too bad it only was on the 4cyl
 
Not much love for the Mazda 6...don't see many.
 
Same as the VW CC -- don't see many. I actually prefer the CC over many in this thread.

#11690 of 16251 Re: Trying to decide.... TL? G37? other? [dap2006] by plekto

Oct 30, 2010 (12:49 pm)

Replying to: dap2006 (Oct 29, 2010 5:16 pm)
I will mention, though, that the new CTS is worlds better than anything Mazda makes. It's positioned in Europe as a BMW 5 series competitor at a lot less money.
 
My parents just went through this exact same scenario. And had it down to the same models are you are looking at. And the CTS just simply was a superior product to the Infiniti. The only vehicle that gave it serious competition was the C300, which is my #1 pick if money is no object. It;s everything that you want and Mercedes is apparently finally making their cars right again. Though currently only the C class is benefiting, as will the upcoming model E class(it takes time to re-tool and phase in new technology)
 
Also, I mentioned the G8 because while 2009 was the last year for it, it had the same suspension and engine as a CTS. It's a worlds better choice than the LaCrosse and actually is fairly attractive by comparison(looks like a cross between the CTS and the LaCrosse, IMO - slightly rounded but not a jellybean.
 
But let's look at the math on slightly used vs lease:
First off, Infiniti has no financing options currently on 2011 models. (it's impossible to find a 2010 to lease at this point). Fail.
Let's look at Acura, then. Oops. Same deal.
K... Mercedes. Mercedes always runs leases(as does VW and Audi)
 
C300 $349/month for 27 months. 10K/yr. $3141at signing.
Total at lease end: 12215 in payments. $452.41/month.
(a BMW 328i is $439/month with 0 down at signing for reference)
 
Let's have some fun, then.
2011 Accord EX. $229 /month for 36 months. $1499 at signing.
Total at lease end: 9743 in payments. $270.64/month.
 
Now why would I do this comparison? Because to lease any vehicle, you have to factor in what it costs versus a used model that still has the same amount of factory warranty left. 36 months lease vs 36 months(or more) warranty. Now, the main deal here is the drive train, which is pretty much all that matters(most certified cars get an extension anyways and the gremlins have been worked out/fixed. It's basically a wash, IMO, since a 2 year old car won't break anyways unless it's something nasty like a Suzuki or Daewoo.
 
I did a 2 minute search for a 2009 G8 with low mileage and under $25K.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=c&car_id=279792030
 
Figure $22K now and $12K in three years. That's $10K for three years. I put the Accord in as a comparison because what this means is that you can get a certified year old vehicle and run it for three years for the same price as an economy car lease.
 
But there's no wear and tear adjustment, no money factor idiocy or other tricks, no mileage cap or penalty. In short, you can OWN and decide to keep to trade whenever you want for the same price as a lease. The only difference is the payment structure per month. But a 72 month payment plan will usually net (now due to silly low interest rates) about the same monthly payment as a lease. If you want out of it, or to buy it at the end of the "payments", it's a clear win. Keep paying the bank or just sell it and end up with 0 month owed after 36 months.
 
I get about $350 a month in this scenario vs $450 a month for the Mercedes or BMW.
 
Note - you can get a 2008 CTS for about ~25K and the money works out the same as the CTS depreciates a bit less - ~15K at 6 years old. The only difference is $400 a month and the same $10K total cost.
 
Let some other person eat the 10-15K initial depreciation. Never buy new.

#11691 of 16251 Re: Trying to decide.... TL? G37? other? [plekto] by alltorque

Oct 30, 2010 (1:29 pm)

Replying to: plekto (Oct 30, 2010 12:49 pm)
I will mention, though, that the new CTS is worlds better than anything Mazda makes. It's positioned in Europe as a BMW 5 series competitor at a lot less money.
 
Here in UK, the BMW 5's run from £31k for the 523i SE to around £50k for the 550i SE, with lots of diesels. The Cadillac CTS runs from £27k for the 2.8 V6 thro' £30k for the 3.6 V6 to £56k for the 6.2 V8, (though who would buy that beats me). CTS is generally compared unfavourably to BMW/Merc/Jag/Audi due to poor ride/handling, (our roads aren't great), and having no diesel options..............a very big points loser !
 
Not sure I've ever seen one on the road.
 
The Mazda 6 runs from £16k for the 1.8 S through to £23k for the 2.2D Sport Estate, (wagon). Gets rated highly, for price, if a tad noisy and there are lots of diesels.

#11692 of 16251 Re: Trying to decide.... TL? G37? other? [ivan_99] by dap2006

Oct 30, 2010 (4:17 pm)

Replying to: ivan_99 (Oct 29, 2010 1:20 pm)
I drove the Audi A4 Premium Plus w/ sport package today - I was looking for a Quattro but they had just arrived and weren't prepped yet. Great interior, solid, high quality all around - liked the nav, seats, LED's etc.. much to like here. Only problem - turbo lag. The salesman assured me the car would learn how I drive and adjust within 500 miles, also that the Quattro had half the lag - I'll go back and see. Other than that, very pleasing...
 
Anyone else have any experience with the A4 turbo? Does the lag improve?

#11693 of 16251 Re: Trying to decide.... TL? G37? other? [dap2006] by tlong

Oct 30, 2010 (4:26 pm)

Replying to: dap2006 (Oct 30, 2010 4:17 pm)
Personally I don't see how 4wd or "learning how you drive" would get rid of turbo lag. Might be a BS salesman wanting a sale or lease. But what do I know?

#11694 of 16251 Re: Trying to decide.... TL? G37? other? [alltorque] by plekto

Oct 31, 2010 (2:27 am)

Replying to: alltorque (Oct 30, 2010 1:29 pm)
Well, yeah, the U.K. is its own bit of insanity when it comes to vehicles. Bigger autobahn and highway cruisers aren't really appreciated over there. Doubly so if there isn't a diesel option. And, the new CTS doesn't have a tiny engine option, either - you get big and guzzling or you go home
 
But here in the U.S., yes, it's cheaper than a 5 series by a fair amount especially at the end of the model year, is a bit more reliable, and drives essentially the same. Of course it's now a 3 series competitor, but few things are.

#11695 of 16251 Re: Trying to decide.... TL? G37? other? [dap2006] by v8nuts

Oct 31, 2010 (6:54 pm)

Replying to: dap2006 (Oct 29, 2010 5:10 am)
well I decided to get the 335i last year and am glad I did it is worth every penny . I drove my friends G37 and was very disappointed in the way the engine makes it power compared the the twin turbo 335. There is nothing like the torque of twin turbos on the street with all of it available at 2k or so...

Messages Page 1170 of 1626

To POST a message, please Sign In.

Advertisement

Browse by Category

Browse by Vehicle
   View All Vehicles

Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
View All Topics

Edmunds Community

Advertisement