Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#11575 of 16087 2011 a stale year for this category??
Oct 03, 2010 (12:49 pm)
by my count 2011 is a year that brings nothing really new.. the new S60 "naughty volvo" kind of cool i guess but its not going to win in performance. Lexus IS has new commercials that talk about its new performance package but its the same car... The G changed the front end a bit for 2010, but nothing has really changed-- i guess the new performance line is kind of cool but the sedan is not part of it... The Caddy has no changes planed, Acura TL will have to wait until 2012 for the nose job but nothing in the blood work..Audi looks like they dropped the v6 option for the A4. BMW has new "s" models but again the sedan not involved in the changes.. any thoughts??
#11576 of 16087 Re: been awhile --lets recap [smarty666]
Oct 03, 2010 (8:41 pm)
Here are the facts in the great Japanese vs German luxury debate!
1) Japanese vehicles have higher residual values then German vehicles still
2) The CHANCE of getting a problem littered German vehicle is still higher than a Japanese one and a higher CHANCE of having more expensive/numerous long-term reliability issues
3) when similarly built up with the same size engine, features, content, navigation, etc the German vehicles cost a few thousand more than their Japanese counterparts
All these fit the descriptions of any appliance....
Here are some facts about German cars;
1) They handle better; the car is part of the driver; it goes where the driver wants to go; the driver feels what car is doing.
2) They give passion to the drivers. I only see my wife smiling while driving a BMW, any BMW, in all the test drive events.
3) They look better from outside; tight body, short overhang, creative curves.
4) They look better from inside; tasteful usage of wood, metal, color and texture.
5) They have higher prestige.
In short, the Japanese cars are for people who just want a tool from point A to point B. German cars are for people who love to drive to any points in style.
#11577 of 16087 Re: been awhile --lets recap [xlu]
Oct 03, 2010 (9:20 pm)
1) I'd have to agree. BMW has the best handling car out there (better than an Acura...and I've owned two...TL and RL).
2) Not sure about passion, but definitely allows the driver to push the limits while driving with confidence
3) Designs are more evolutionary than revolutionary, but that's not a bad thing.
4) In my opinion, BMW interiors are very sedate and understated. My only gripe is the radio system. Without having read the manual, I challenge anyone new to BMW to figure out how to change the radio station.
5) Living in Dallas, BMWs are everywhere! Prestige factor is lower here.
#11578 of 16087 Re: Prestige [GBrianK]
Oct 03, 2010 (11:27 pm)
I'm on the Lexus now (1.5 years)...I usually don't keep them long. I have the intention to...but then something comes up where I decide a change is needed. The Audi (A6) duration was 2.5years or so; an A4 was in there as well...was only 1.5 years duration.
Although I do have a mini-van since 2005...probably will keep it for another 5 years...
#11579 of 16087 Re: been awhile --lets recap [jimbres]
Oct 04, 2010 (6:54 am)
Can't argue with any of that!
#11580 of 16087 Re: been awhile --lets recap [xlu]
Oct 04, 2010 (7:13 am)
I would agree with you on points 1 and 2 for the most part but not on 3, 4, and 5. There are Japanese offerings from at least 1 of the 3 companies that can match the Germans in points 3, 4, and 5.
Lexus definitely has the prestige factor or so many people would not flock to them month after month for most of their products have such souless driving. I feel the same way about MB but they do a little bit better job of not making the drive as boring as Lexus does but do not come close to Audi, Infiniti, or BMW when it comes to driving dynamics and sport performance.
Infiniti gives passion for the driver, but if you have never had one you would not know that. I've raced many BMW's in my time with my Infiniti and have beaten many of them. Its a really fun to drive and I smile a lot when in it so there are Japanese vehicles that offer that passion and fun factor for the driver.
In regards to point 3, Infiniti has really nice looking vehicles, tight bodies, and many sporty curves to them. BMW used to really lack in this area until the new 3 and 5 series which finally have some nice curves in their body styles and I quite like the looks of both of them now on the outside. Audi's body styles are really nice as well.
In regards to point 4, the only German make who has a gorgeous interior is Audi. BMW is still on the plain side with little textures, color in their interiors and just are functional. Luckily they use high quality materials and little plastic which helps the blahness and makes the interior's livable and presentable. MB is using too much plastic like Acura does now on the interiors which is disappointing and a turn off for me. The new M from Infiniti has a really nice textured/high quality interior which competes finally on par with the Germans. Lexus has nice/high quality interiors as well depending on the model you get.
There are plenty of Japanese vehicles that are for people who love to drive to any points in style, you just don't care to look for them. Talk about a rash generalization.
#11581 of 16087 Re: been awhile --lets recap [smarty666]
Oct 04, 2010 (10:22 am)
In regards to point 4, the only German make who has a gorgeous interior is Audi.
IMHO MB interiors are much nicer than Lexus. They also smell much richer, something about differences in the leather.
#11582 of 16087 Re: been awhile --lets recap [tlong]
Oct 04, 2010 (11:20 am)
There are a few exceptions from time to time, though. The IS300, for instance, was awesome when it was released. The IS250/350 somehow lost that "Euro" feel and magic to it. I think it's more than just designing a car to handle well. I think it's that BMW and Mercedes know how to balance all of the factors so that none of them really stand out. ie - you get a solid B+ rating in everything and so it feels poised and has the same feel to it.
A good analogy is a band. If one instrument stands out badly , it kind of ruins the thing. Japan usually gets only a couple of areas wrong, and sometimes manages this balancing act. GM -well, they're lucky if the band is in tune most days.
#11583 of 16087 Re: been awhile --lets recap [plekto]
Oct 04, 2010 (11:35 am)
GM -well, they're lucky if the band is in tune most days.
They sometimes play really well, it's just that the band has trouble getting through a song before one of the members goes unconscious from an overdose.
#11584 of 16087 Re: been awhile --lets recap [tlong]
Oct 04, 2010 (1:23 pm)
Perhaps but they don't use enough high quality materials like BMW and Audi do consistently throughout the cabin. I've found way to many cheap imitation plastic things in their vehicles when I test drove them which bothered me a lot. I've seen two or three reviews over the last few years slapping them a little bit on the amount of plastic as well.
Though the leather was really nice quality and comfortable I'll give MB that!