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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

11073 messages,  Last post on Jul 16, 2009 at 1:47 PM

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G35, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Lexus IS 250, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

#10974 of 11073 Re: Another vote for less weight on the sedan [tayl0rd] by plekto Apr 17, 2008 (3:44 pm)
Replying to: tayl0rd (Apr 17, 2008 4:54 am) I meant more parts in the connecting rods. I see it as having pultiple connecting rods since it has more than one part between the piston and the crankshaft.   *** from wiki on 60 degree engines*** However, more modern designs often use a 3-throw crankshaft with what are termed flying arms between the crankpins, which not only give the required 120° separation but also can be used for balancing purposes. Combined with a pair of heavy counterweights on the crankshaft ends, these can eliminate all but a modest secondary imbalance which can easily be damped out by the engine mounts *** So you don't have piston. rod. crankshaft. like in an inline engine. You have a bunch of intermediary parts kludged together to keep it from shaking itself apart.   GM's 90 degree designs are even more complex and run even rougher, being designed off of V8 engines. Actually quite nasty, really. They tend to eat through engine mounts fairly regularly.   The reason you don't see many I6s is because they usually won't fit in a FWD car due to there needing to be space for the CV joints and transmission as well. Thankfully it is making a comeback as makers are slowly realizing what a giant turd FWD technology is, especially in vehicles with over 200HP. Replies to this message: shipo (Apr 17, 2008 8:13 pm) laurasdada (Apr 18, 2008 10:31 am) circlew (Apr 18, 2008 12:12 pm) and 2 more...
#10975 of 11073 Re: Another vote for less weight on the sedan [alltorque] by cdnpinhead Apr 17, 2008 (5:10 pm)
Replying to: alltorque (Apr 17, 2008 6:18 am) ". . .plus valve radio."   I also remember tube (valve) radios in cars -- they took awhile to warm up and really could run down the battery if left on while the engine (with its generator) was shut down. Lots of things have improved tremendously in automobiles over the past 50 years, but many of them add weight.   My '65 MGB was lots of fun to drive & own, with the knock-offs, wire wheels, the tightest steering I've ever had and shifter feel that was unequalled. Safe? Not really. Powerful? No. Radio quality? Awful. Still, a wonderful car.
#10977 of 11073 Re: Another vote for less weight on the sedan [plekto] by shipo Apr 17, 2008 (8:13 pm)
Replying to: plekto (Apr 17, 2008 3:44 pm) Ummm, I'm thinking that you've grossly misinterpreted what you quoted from Wikipedia. True, most V6 engines use a three throw crank with some form of an offset between paired connecting rods to achieve an even 120 degree firing interval, however, even the 60 degree engines that use flying arms (an arm that reaches between connecting rods and extends from the throw back through the axis of the crank and some distance beyond) have no more complicated connecting rod assemblies than an inline engine. FWIW, flying arms are cast into the crank itself, they don't move independently and other than a little machining to remove a small amount of metal in the balancing process, require no extra work during engine assembly.   Actually, when looked at from a part count perspective, V6 crank shaft, crank bearing, and connecting rod assemblies (bearings included) are actually simpler than an I6. Why is that? Simple, your typical V6 only uses four main bearings with a single 2-cylinder offset throw in between each main pair, however, your typical I6 uses seven main bearings with each cylinder having its own throw situated between main pairs. In spite of this difference, I6 engines usually have a considerably lower parts count compared to a V6 of an otherwise similar design.   Best Regards, Shipo Replies to this message: laurasdada (Apr 18, 2008 10:31 am) circlew (Apr 18, 2008 12:12 pm) laurasdada (Apr 18, 2008 12:44 pm) and 1 more...
#10978 of 11073 Re: Another vote for less weight on the sedan [shipo] by laurasdada Apr 18, 2008 (10:31 am)
Replying to: shipo (Apr 17, 2008 8:13 pm) Ok, Mr. shipo-smarty-pants. Now that you've explained that, can you please explain how the Pats lost the Super Bowl???   Sorry, still having flashbacks...     Replies to this message: circlew (Apr 18, 2008 12:12 pm) laurasdada (Apr 18, 2008 12:44 pm) circlew (Apr 18, 2008 4:05 pm)
#10979 of 11073 Re: ES300 vs. Acura TL [fredvh] by smacd Apr 18, 2008 (11:04 am)
Replying to: fredvh (Mar 24, 2002 11:06 pm) I bought new an 03 CL Type S (last year for the coupe) and it has been an awesome car. Only normal maintenance and I am at 96K miles. Excellent product, I am going to get the the 09 TSX too.
#10980 of 11073 Re: Another vote for less weight on the sedan [laurasdada] by circlew Apr 18, 2008 (12:12 pm)
Replying to: laurasdada (Apr 18, 2008 10:31 am) Giants were more connected to the desire to win...simple as that! More efficient parts in the GIANT Engine than NEP motor!   GIANTS = BMW NEP = GM   Regards, OW Replies to this message: laurasdada (Apr 18, 2008 12:44 pm) circlew (Apr 18, 2008 4:05 pm)
#10981 of 11073 OUCH! by laurasdada Apr 18, 2008 (12:44 pm)
Replying to: circlew (Apr 18, 2008 12:12 pm) "NEP = GM "   Now, that was uncalled for, OW! Low blow! 15 yard penalty and loss of down! Replies to this message: circlew (Apr 18, 2008 4:05 pm)
#10982 of 11073 Re: OUCH! [laurasdada] by circlew Apr 18, 2008 (4:05 pm)
Replying to: laurasdada (Apr 18, 2008 12:44 pm) Sorry, the last time I got to vent as a Giants fan...   I apologize!   Regards, OW
#10983 of 11073 looking for a new ride... by bfluegie Apr 19, 2008 (10:00 am)
I’m looking for a new (to me) ride. I don’t have to decide just now, but probably sometime in the next couple of months. I thought I’d post this here as well as on the “help me decide” forum because this seems to be a very active discussion. Some of the cars I am considering do fit this category, so it’s not too much of a stretch. What I am considering is a (probably) pre-owned BMW 325xi (maybe a 330xi if the deal is right, but I’m not too sure I want a turbo), G35x (I have VPP so I might go new for this), Audi A3 or A4 (I like the A3 better but they’re hard to find in the northern IN vicinity), Acura TSX or maybe TL, but it’s larger and I don’t like it as much. I might consider the Altima coupe as well, but not the sedan. While I like the sedan styling more than the Accord or Camry, I don’t like it as much as the Infinity, and the Altima sedans are everywhere. I don’t want to put my car away for the winter, so I prefer all wheel or front wheel drive. That leaves out the Infinity G-coupe (sigh) and the BMW 3 series coupe. I know several people who drive the G coupe and they either garage it for the winter or get adequate but not great driving with winter tires. I prefer the security of good winter handling. I haven’t completely ruled out a small SUV or crossover, but after 8 years of driving an Exploder I’m ready for a more responsive ride. I joke about the Explorer, but with the exception of an unfortunate “Bambi” incident I have never been left stranded. No significant repairs other than normal wear and tear either. It just has over 130K miles and it is time to move on to something else. As long as I’m moving on, I want to add some fun. I won’t be racing or pushing for maximum speed, but I do like the feel of a car that you don’t have to slow to a crawl when going around a curve. I suppose I want to feel like I am part of a driving system rather than the occupant of a vehicle.   I would consider a 2006-2007, maybe a 2005 as well. I know the Infinity was a new model in 2007 but I like the previous model as well. The BMW was a new model in 2006 and I don’t know anything about the 2005. I might be overlooking something else as well, so any suggestions for additional cars to consider (or avoid) are welcome. I’m considering a manual in the BMW or A4 but I didn’t like the manual in the ‘07 TL I drove (the clutch seemed to have a very tiny “sweet spot” and it didn’t help that the salesperson sneered a little when I lurched on a start). I don’t know if the TSX would be any better. The G35X is only available in an auto. Manual vs. auto isn’t a big factor for me so I probably wouldn’t rule out an auto BMW or Audi either. Since I’m going to continue getting older and creakier, the auto might be a smarter choice, just not as much fun in the pre-creaky years. Replies to this message: ivan_99 (Apr 19, 2008 11:24 am) alltorque (Apr 19, 2008 12:37 pm) bfluegie (Apr 19, 2008 12:45 pm) bfluegie (Apr 19, 2008 12:40 pm) bruceomega (Apr 24, 2008 7:05 am)

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