Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#10785 of 16087 Re: Will Choices Change ? [alltorque]
Mar 14, 2008 (12:29 pm)
I'd buy a BMW or Audi diesel in a heartbeat. I've driven them in Europe and and entirely impressed, especially in their abilities to accelerate from say 20 mph to speeds of well over 100 mph. Forget the issue of fuel availability, if diesel cars start becoming popular (and I predict that they will), gasoline stations will increasingly start offering diesel as well. Case in point, of the three closest gas stations to our house, none of them carried diesel when we moved here in 2002, now they all do. Why? Well in our area, diesel trucks pickups and SUVs are quite popular as are VW TDIs and Mercedes-Benz E320 diesels.
#10786 of 16087 Re: Price Reduction [shipo]
Mar 14, 2008 (1:04 pm)
Heck, you must have a few million miles on you by now. Does your better half logg in that high as well?
I'm at about 300/week but my wife is a SAH mom but surprisingly she drives 200/week jockeying kids all day.
#10787 of 16087 Re: Will Choices Change ? [shipo]
Mar 14, 2008 (1:20 pm)
Shipo, will you consider one for your current consideration or is your buy decision closer. I was thinking 335d when it comes over toward the end of the year. What do you think?
I was pondering it but wanted your view.
#10788 of 16087 Re: Will Choices Change ? [circlew]
Mar 14, 2008 (1:27 pm)
Not shipo but I must say the 335d is very attractive to me. well, all diesels are. Gas here is $4 a gallon for premium. Diesel is about 20 cents more a gallon and the same station is a quarter of a mile from my house. If I can get 30 mpg with a diesel 335d v. 22 mpg with a 335, it's an easy call.
$2100 a year for diesel and $2700 for premium. The diesel may cost more upfront but for me the idea of stopping less often is also really attractive. As prices go up, the savings will increase too. So if I'm looking at $5 a gallon in 2010 (seems reasonable to assume), my savings increase by hundreds.
#10789 of 16087 Re: Will Choices Change ? [circlew]
Mar 14, 2008 (1:36 pm)
Wifey and I have a combined million and a half or more miles, so yeah, she racks them up pretty quickly as well.
Regarding the 335d, if rumors are to be believed, the 335d is only coming over here with an automatic transmisson. As you know, I am a manual transmission bigot, so no dice on the first incarnation of a 3-Series diesel over here.
#10790 of 16087 Re: Price Reduction [shipo]
Mar 14, 2008 (2:03 pm)
Yeah, well I guess my comments were colored by the fact that I often drive 800 in a single week (with 500 being typical).
If I put 800 miles/week, I will be worry more about the depreciation than the gas. 800 miles/week x 52 weeks = 41600 miles/year = a lot of depreciation. I rather buy a small/sport economy car (~18K) instead of a luxury car.
#10791 of 16087 Lexus or Audi Discssion
Mar 14, 2008 (2:03 pm)
I've come to the conclusion that the best car for the OP is actually none of the above.
He wants something affordable and sporty and luxury, that's also reliable and gets good gas mileage. Unfortunately, they stopped making this car 2-3 years ago, but that's fine, because used like-new examples run about $20K.
Get a Mercedes C230K Sedan with manual. This is the *4 door* sedan with the 1.8 supercharged engine in it. It was the exact same model that they sell in Europe(slightly larger engine) and is actually fairly reliable. Mercedes makes two types of cars. Cars and Taxis/Rentals. The way you can tel the difference is if it comes with stick-shift, since 90% of Germans get a license that allows them to drive manuals. If you are one of the 10% that gets an automatic-only license, you are literally laughed at and considered to be a child driver.
Mercedes puts no effort into their fleet sales and models, and especially their automatic transmissions. Just enough to get by and no more(S class aside of course). This is why an E class, well, *is* a Taxi in 90% of the world. And it's why their SUVs suck. They are made for basically U.S. markets and taxis.(see a pattern? heh)
In Europe, it's all about the A, B, and C class. Manuals are the norm and diesels are better. The closer Mercedes you buy to this sort of vehicle, the better it will drive and last.
In Europe, it's called the C200 Kompressor and is a great car. Unfortunately, you have to go back to the previous generation in the U.S. to get that engine.
Of course, the BEST Mercedes is this:
C 220 CDI 4-cylinder 190 hp 460 Nm
If we got this over here, it would obliterate the entry-level segment. 460Nm is an outrageous amount of torque, and 190HP is equal to the IS250. All while getting 30+ mpg.
Bummer we can't get it here...
Now, if you're looking for automatic(sigh), get couple of year old IS300. This car has the IS250's looks and feel, yet is lighter and lots more powerful, plus it has a nice I-6 engine as well. It'll blow the doors off of a new IS250 or A4 in overall driving, and is somewhat useable in the rear for kids.
Note - while the IS300 was good, it honestly reminded me exactly of the Volvo 850, but with RWD instead of FWD. It had a very "European" feel to it. Something abot the balance and suspension and size and all the rest - it felt better than the base 3 series.
The Lexus messed up. they made a compromise version that's honestly not any better than the stuff GM puts out, and they put a mega-speed transmission and a V6 in the IS350 in a quest for power, when all it did as turn it into a muscle car.
Remember, the original luxury performance sedan was... a BMW 2002. Light, agile, and well rounded are musts. Bloat, muscle-car power, and in search for a purpose... that's most modern cars.
Or you can get a classic. There's no shame in driving a classic car.
#10792 of 16087 Re: Lexus or Audi Discssion [plekto]
Mar 14, 2008 (2:45 pm)
they put a mega-speed transmission and a V6 in the IS350 in a quest for power, when all it did as turn it into a muscle car.
For some reason MB agrees with Lexus' strategy as they are doing exactly the same thing with the new C-class.
#10793 of 16087 Re: Will Choices Change ? [alltorque]
Mar 14, 2008 (3:00 pm)
". . .once you guys get the full range of Euro/Japanese diesels."
As if. . .
I can guarantee you that the car I bought this week would have been different if we had access here in the land of the EPA and the state of California to "the full range of Euro/Japanese diesels." I don't think it's ever going to happen, but I'll be very happy to be wrong.
Bring me a 2.0 - 2.5 litre turbodiesel with a manual transmission & RWD with room enough in the back (fold-down seats or wagon/avant) for my bicycle, and I'll be happy. Several vehicles which meet these requirements have been available in Europe for over six years that I know of, but aren't here even yet.
#10794 of 16087 Re: Price Reduction [gooddeal2]
Mar 14, 2008 (3:06 pm)
"If I put 800 miles/week, I will be worry more about the depreciation than the gas. 800 miles/week x 52 weeks = 41600 miles/year = a lot of depreciation. I rather buy a small/sport economy car (~18K) instead of a luxury car."
Yup, one of the several reasons why the 530i went back to BMW-FS at lease end, and why, instead of replacing it, I chose to drive our old "spare car" (home depot/dump run hack with ~80,000 on the clock at the time) for the duration of that contract. During the 21 months that I serviced that client I put on just shy of 80,000 miles in spite of the fact that I was occasionally traveling and it sat in the garage.
I'm now in the market for a new contract, and the two companies that seem to be the most likely candidates will have my mileage drop to a more normal 15,000 to 20,000 miles per year. Assuming one of those two actually happen, I'm thinking the 2009 Audi A3 (which will have the new "clean-sheet design" EA 888 engine), with a 6-Speed manual of course. The only rub with that car is that it is "wrong wheel drive", however, it does sport a spare tire well complete with a donut spare (but room for a full size wheel/tire), a jack, real GFTs, a dip-stick tube for checking/changing the oil, and room in the back to schlep around our new mutt.
The flip side is that the company I was with for those 21 months is, A) talking of giving me another juicy contract, and B) has moved their offices some 20 miles further (each way) from our home. If I end up back there, geez, I'm thinking either a new Honda Civic EX-L 6-Speed or a 2009 Jetta TDI 6-Speed, cars I can put 100,000 miles on in two years and not suffer too much from the depreciation.