Last post on Dec 06, 2013 at 7:58 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#10543 of 16984 Re: Stop Bellyaching on Pricing [louiswei]
Nov 16, 2007 (2:44 pm)
I am pretty sure that back in 1987 the 325i was the top of the line 3-series. Today's top of the line 3-series is the 335i and it starts at $39,000 so the increase in percentage is 38.3%. Although still much lower than the Accord and Corolla but is not as ridiculously low as the 14.9% that you have provided.
I tried my best to compare apples to apples in configuration. Yes the 335i is 38% more than the 1987 325i, but then the current top of the line Accord EX-L V6 at $30,260 is 96% more than the top of the line 1987 Accord LX-i 4 door at $15,434. And, if you want to get really off track, the current 335i compares very favorably performance and size wise to a 1988 M5 that ran $49,050, 26% MORE than the current 335i.
To answer your question, the 1987 325 (no "e" or "i") had a base price of $24,655. So the current 328i has a base price 33.0% higher than the bottom of the line 3 series in 1987. But again, comparing bottom of the line Accords, the current LX 4 cylinder manual at $20,360 is 87.2% more than the 1987 DX at $10,874.
Whether or not some consider the current 3 series or upcoming 1 series too big, too heavy, not as much fun as the little 3 series or 1600/2000's of old is a completely different matter. But when you look just at the price, it's hard not to conclude that there are more people that can afford a 3 series today that could have only dreamed of one in 1987. BMW's sales figures and increases in market share seem to reflect this. And there may be at least a few people who can't afford an Accord today, that could have in 1987. They are now buying Hyundai's and the like.
P.S. A 1994 850 CSi? $101,500.
#10544 of 16984 Re: Don't care about the past [blueguydotcom]
Nov 16, 2007 (7:57 pm)
"The 1 series, with it s piggy weight and lack of doors is obscenely priced in my eyes (ditto the e46 ci and e92). It's a value call and in my eyes, the fun/utility-to-value ratio is lacking in the new BMW line-up. I'll never apologize for my 44k MSRP e46 ZHP...but I'm still redfaced over the 42k e90 ZSP."
I don't see your logic here Blueguy (lack of doors notwithstanding).
A 2009 128i loaded with Premium and Sport Packages will have an MSRP of about $34,000. It will be the performance equal of your old ZHP in every way, yet cost $10,000 less. In fact, even a well equipped 135i will come in several thousand under $44,000 - and even though it weighs a whopping 50 lbs more than the E46 330i, it's got performance that puts your dearly departed to utter shame.
1-series pricing, as I've been predicting, will make a CPO E46 of recent vintage a complete rip-off.
#10545 of 16984 Re: Don't care about the past [fedlawman]
Nov 16, 2007 (9:19 pm)
Fed, I'm not following you. I was quite clear that the fun/utility ratio to price is missing from the 1 series coupe (and all BMW coupes). I said my ZHP was worth every penny; my e90 - regardless of its sticker - wasn't worth any amount to me (it's an absolute bore of a car to drive at any speed, on any road, at any time). I did not like my e90.
I don't care if an e90 will stomp an e46 on a track...the car's just not fun.
#10546 of 16984 Re: Don't care about the past [blueguydotcom]
Nov 16, 2007 (9:43 pm)
I did say "lack of doors notwithstanding" regarding your coupe vs. sedan point (it's a valid point for some buyers). Put plainly, if you absolutely need 4-doors, then you don't belong in a 1-series discussion. If, on the other hand, you simply need a backseat (which is the case for many "2nd/backup car shoppers"), the upright "2-door sedan" design of the 1er should be just fine.
My point is simply that from a performance/value standpoint, the 1-series absolutely demolishes the E46.
#10547 of 16984 Re: Don't care about the past [fedlawman]
Nov 17, 2007 (8:11 am)
Will ignore the doors - which I think is integral to the discussion at hand as the utility of the car is diminished 1000% percent with only two doors.
I have no driven the 1, so I can't comment on how it performs vis-a-vis an e46. If it's anything like the e90, then no it will do the exact opposite of demolish. On the remote chance it's not like the e90, then sure it could be more fun to drive than an e46. I highly doubt that given BMW's track record the past few years.
#10548 of 16984 Re: Don't care about the past [blueguydotcom]
Nov 17, 2007 (8:43 am)
My bad - this is the sedan forum, not the 1-series forum (hard to differentiate sometimes when I read so many).
Yes, on this forum, 4-doors is a much more significant discriminator.
#10549 of 16984 Re: Don't care about the past [fedlawman]
Nov 18, 2007 (8:29 am)
Could you tell me where you got your pricing info on the 1? Also, what's available to put into the little beast.
#10550 of 16984 Re: Don't care about the past [pj42nato]
Nov 18, 2007 (9:12 am)
Edmunds' blog entry has some info and bimmerfest has the listings for everything. The available stuff pretty much matches the 1 series (essentially the same pricing too).
1 series pricing from Fedlawman: fedlawman, "BMW 1-Series" #993, 16 Nov 2007 7:29 pm
#10552 of 16984 Re: Cadillac CTS wins MT Car of the Year! [mz6greyghost]
Nov 20, 2007 (6:25 am)
Congratulations! Let me know when they change the exterior so I can open my eyes!