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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16087 messages,  Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1055 of 1609

#10537 of 16087 Re: Stop Bellyaching on Pricing [tayl0rd] by circlew

Nov 16, 2007 (1:11 pm)

Replying to: tayl0rd (Nov 16, 2007 12:29 pm)
Not compared to a $63K Escalade with Luxo Pkg. Now that's an over priced Tahoe if I've ever saw one. I do think they finally got a good trifecta in the Lamda triplets. Too bad they are playing the short-supply game.
 
Is BMW expensive? Yes. So is Mercedes. Overpriced? No problem. Stay with GM and get 3rd rate steel.
 
I gladly paid the extra $ in 2006 'cause I sick of the US junk, INHO. CTS is getting there but not arrived yet as far as I'm concerned. Way over priced for the level of driving performance.
 
My biggest problem is I have an acute memory of what the US WAS capable of i autos. I have only a small vote but I already have decided for the 2008 vote for my next ride.
 
Regards,
OW

#10538 of 16087 Re: Stop Bellyaching on Pricing [habitat1] by tayl0rd

Nov 16, 2007 (1:17 pm)

Replying to: habitat1 (Nov 16, 2007 1:01 pm)
Well, for my "wants," it was the only game in town. Had to have a V8, great handling, good comfort/fit & finish, Sirius satellite radio and a MANUAL transmission. Nothing else covers all those bases. The only thing(s) that kept me from keeping my wits and buying a 335i Sport sedan was the fact that you can't get a V8 in the 3-series (yet) and they didn't have one to my liking on the lot (or any 335i on the lot for that matter.) For the price I paid, I suppose I could've waited for the M3, but you know how price gouging works. Then again, I didn't want a coupe as a daily driver.

#10539 of 16087 Re: 1-Series pricing - Competitive? [circlew] by gordonwd

Nov 16, 2007 (1:40 pm)

Replying to: circlew (Nov 15, 2007 12:13 pm)
Interestingly, those are almost exactly the same as the base prices for my '04 E46 for a 325i vs. 330i. And close to the same optioned-out prices. I paid about $35K for my 325i when all my options were added.
 
By the way, I am also one of those who likes to get exactly what I want in a car, so I custom-ordered mine -- including some non-usual options -- and waited the 8 weeks or so that it took to get it built and delivered.

#10540 of 16087 Re: Stop Bellyaching on Pricing [tayl0rd] by habitat1

Nov 16, 2007 (1:55 pm)

Replying to: tayl0rd (Nov 16, 2007 1:17 pm)
Just curious, why the "have to have" V8? I'm not currently in the market, so haven't test driven the 535i 6-speed or 550i 6-speed. But from my previous drives of the 530i and 545i, (both 6-speed, sport pckg) I actually preferred the handling of the lighter 530i. But it gave up a lot in power to the 545i. Now, from what I have heard from others who have driven both, the lighter 535i is neck and neck with the heavier 550i in acceleration.
 
Good choice on the 6-speed manual.

#10541 of 16087 Don't care about the past by blueguydotcom

Nov 16, 2007 (2:05 pm)

I know that my e90 matched option to option was cheaper than my e46. The e46 was worth it though; the e90 isn't worth 5k less than a comparably equipped e46, in my view. The 1 series, with it s piggy weight and lack of doors is obscenely priced in my eyes (ditto the e46 ci and e92). It's a value call and in my eyes, the fun/utility-to-value ratio is lacking in the new BMW line-up. I'll never apologize for my 44k MSRP e46 ZHP...but I'm still redfaced over the 42k e90 ZSP.
 
BTw, I'm with habitat on the 5 series thing; I'm not sure why the 550i exists when it really doesn't offer much (if any) performance boost over the 535i. Is it just for crowing that someone has a V8 - even if it adds weight and no real performance gain?

#10542 of 16087 Re: Stop Bellyaching on Pricing [habitat1] by louiswei

Nov 16, 2007 (2:30 pm)

Replying to: habitat1 (Nov 16, 2007 12:18 pm)
Got a question for you...
 
I am pretty sure that back in 1987 the 325i was the top of the line 3-series. Today's top of the line 3-series is the 335i and it starts at $39,000 so the increase in percentage is 38.3%. Although still much lower than the Accord and Corolla but is not as ridiculously low as the 14.9% that you have provided.
 
Now the question is, what is the base model for the 3-series back in 1987 and what's the increase in percentage when comparing to today's base model 328i?
 
Edit: I have just found out that the base model in 1987 is 325 (without the "i").

#10543 of 16087 Re: Stop Bellyaching on Pricing [louiswei] by habitat1

Nov 16, 2007 (3:44 pm)

Replying to: louiswei (Nov 16, 2007 2:30 pm)
I am pretty sure that back in 1987 the 325i was the top of the line 3-series. Today's top of the line 3-series is the 335i and it starts at $39,000 so the increase in percentage is 38.3%. Although still much lower than the Accord and Corolla but is not as ridiculously low as the 14.9% that you have provided.
 
I tried my best to compare apples to apples in configuration. Yes the 335i is 38% more than the 1987 325i, but then the current top of the line Accord EX-L V6 at $30,260 is 96% more than the top of the line 1987 Accord LX-i 4 door at $15,434. And, if you want to get really off track, the current 335i compares very favorably performance and size wise to a 1988 M5 that ran $49,050, 26% MORE than the current 335i.
 
To answer your question, the 1987 325 (no "e" or "i") had a base price of $24,655. So the current 328i has a base price 33.0% higher than the bottom of the line 3 series in 1987. But again, comparing bottom of the line Accords, the current LX 4 cylinder manual at $20,360 is 87.2% more than the 1987 DX at $10,874.
 
Whether or not some consider the current 3 series or upcoming 1 series too big, too heavy, not as much fun as the little 3 series or 1600/2000's of old is a completely different matter. But when you look just at the price, it's hard not to conclude that there are more people that can afford a 3 series today that could have only dreamed of one in 1987. BMW's sales figures and increases in market share seem to reflect this. And there may be at least a few people who can't afford an Accord today, that could have in 1987. They are now buying Hyundai's and the like.
 
P.S. A 1994 850 CSi? $101,500.

#10544 of 16087 Re: Don't care about the past [blueguydotcom] by fedlawman

Nov 16, 2007 (8:57 pm)

Replying to: blueguydotcom (Nov 16, 2007 2:05 pm)
"The 1 series, with it s piggy weight and lack of doors is obscenely priced in my eyes (ditto the e46 ci and e92). It's a value call and in my eyes, the fun/utility-to-value ratio is lacking in the new BMW line-up. I'll never apologize for my 44k MSRP e46 ZHP...but I'm still redfaced over the 42k e90 ZSP."
 
I don't see your logic here Blueguy (lack of doors notwithstanding).
 
A 2009 128i loaded with Premium and Sport Packages will have an MSRP of about $34,000. It will be the performance equal of your old ZHP in every way, yet cost $10,000 less. In fact, even a well equipped 135i will come in several thousand under $44,000 - and even though it weighs a whopping 50 lbs more than the E46 330i, it's got performance that puts your dearly departed to utter shame.
 
1-series pricing, as I've been predicting, will make a CPO E46 of recent vintage a complete rip-off.

#10545 of 16087 Re: Don't care about the past [fedlawman] by blueguydotcom

Nov 16, 2007 (10:19 pm)

Replying to: fedlawman (Nov 16, 2007 8:57 pm)
Fed, I'm not following you. I was quite clear that the fun/utility ratio to price is missing from the 1 series coupe (and all BMW coupes). I said my ZHP was worth every penny; my e90 - regardless of its sticker - wasn't worth any amount to me (it's an absolute bore of a car to drive at any speed, on any road, at any time). I did not like my e90.
 
I don't care if an e90 will stomp an e46 on a track...the car's just not fun.

#10546 of 16087 Re: Don't care about the past [blueguydotcom] by fedlawman

Nov 16, 2007 (10:43 pm)

Replying to: blueguydotcom (Nov 16, 2007 10:19 pm)
I did say "lack of doors notwithstanding" regarding your coupe vs. sedan point (it's a valid point for some buyers). Put plainly, if you absolutely need 4-doors, then you don't belong in a 1-series discussion. If, on the other hand, you simply need a backseat (which is the case for many "2nd/backup car shoppers"), the upright "2-door sedan" design of the 1er should be just fine.
 
My point is simply that from a performance/value standpoint, the 1-series absolutely demolishes the E46.

Messages Page 1055 of 1609

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