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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16249 messages,  Last post on Jun 17, 2013 at 9:27 AM

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1032 of 1626

#10302 of 16249 Re: Disappointed by 2008 CTS [shipo] by readerreader

Sep 19, 2007 (3:02 pm)

Replying to: shipo (Sep 19, 2007 1:36 pm)
#10299 of 10301 Re: Disappointed by 2008 CTS [readerreader] by shipo Sep 19, 2007 (1:36 pm)
Replying to: readerreader (Sep 19, 2007 1:19 pm)
"You cannot find a car like the CTS with all its dimensions etc., for the same price."
  
Agreed, however, Cadillac did a phenomonally poor job of using all of interior space, so much so that the CTS is considerably less comfortable to drive and ride in than a "smaller" 3-Series.
  
Slice it and dice it any way you want, the CTS is inferior virtually every car in its chosen category, the Lexus IS being the possible single exception.
  
Best Regards,
Shipo
============================================================
 
The Cadillac did an excellent job, since it is larger than any other car in its class on the inside.
 
It may be less comfortable to drive "mentally" (for some) since it doesn't have the roundel on the front; but the CTS is in almost every way more comfortable than the 3-Series--which is the smallest car in its class.
This we know.
 
And we have not even gotten to the ride which was described thusly by Car and Driver:
 
"On the street, our initial impression is that the CTS is more comfortable than a Sport-package-equipped BMW 3-series or Infiniti G35 without giving up much ultimate performance..."
 
http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/13537/full-test-2008-cadillac-cts-driving-- - impressions-page3.html
 
"It also doesn’t hurt that even with a steeply raked rear window, the CTS offers a much larger and usable back seat (the smallest Caddy is similar in size to a 5-series BMW) than those in the smaller luxury sedans it competes with price-wise."
 
http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/13537/full-test-2008-cadillac-cts-the-verd- - ict-page5.html
 
Indeed, it's "verdict" on the same page was:
 
"Highs: Well-sorted chassis, bold exterior design, lots of passenger space, the best interior yet from GM."
 
Shall I go on?
 
Shall I find more reviews?
 
No review of the 2008 CTS have ever compared it unfavorably with the competition based on interior room.
That is physically impossible to do (according to the laws of physics).
"Comfort" is subjective, but no dice there either.
 
This car is not any more "inferior" than any other car in its class. It has its highs and lows like any other car there.

#10303 of 16249 Re: Disappointed by 2008 CTS [readerreader] by shipo

Sep 19, 2007 (3:56 pm)

Replying to: readerreader (Sep 19, 2007 3:02 pm)
"The Cadillac did an excellent job, since it is larger than any other car in its class on the inside."
 
I never said otherwise.
 
It may be less comfortable to drive "mentally" (for some) since it doesn't have the roundel on the front; but the CTS is in almost every way more comfortable than the 3-Series--which is the smallest car in its class.
This we know.
 
You can't be serious. Go and drive them and then go and ride in them, front and back. I'm only 5'8" and the 3-Series is WAY more comfortable especially in the back. I find it very telling that even a Honda Civic Sedan is more comfortable to sit in the back seat than a CTS. Said another way, the GM engineer that decided to put the seats (both front and rear) so low to the floor and then not allow for enough leg room in the rear to allow a rear seat passenger’s lower thigh to comfortably rest on the seat cushion ought to be fired.
 
"And we have not even gotten to the ride which was described thusly by Car and Driver:"
 
Do you have any opinions of your own? Folks who buy cars based upon what a car rag says deserved what the get, a turkey. That said, while we're on the subject:
 
"It also doesn’t hurt that even with a steeply raked rear window, the CTS offers a much larger and usable back seat (the smallest Caddy is similar in size to a 5-series BMW) than those in the smaller luxury sedans it competes with price-wise."
 
Apparently they didn't sit in the back and simply compared the spec sheets. The CTS has one of the absolute worst back seat areas of any sedan I've ridden in in recent memory, errr, except the Lexus IS.
 
"Highs: Well-sorted chassis, bold exterior design, lots of passenger space, the best interior yet from GM."
 
Yes, there's lots of space, HIGHLY uncomfortable space, and the "Best interior yet from GM"? Geez, that's kind of like saying "The best filet mignon yet from Dairy Queen".
 
"This car is not any more "inferior" than any other car in its class. It has its highs and lows like any other car there."
 
Clearly you haven't driven the cars in this class yourself. The new CTS is a sloppy handler with an uncomfortable interior, questionable exterior looks, and as for the power rating on the V6, either the car is extremely obese or the 300 horsepower is wildly optimistic (or maybe a little of both).
 
Please, before you argue specs and reviews, go DRIVE them yourself, you might just find that your rhetoric is a bit hollow.
 
Best Regards,
Shipo

#10304 of 16249 Re: Disappointed by 2008 CTS [shipo] by readerreader

Sep 19, 2007 (5:25 pm)

Replying to: shipo (Sep 19, 2007 3:56 pm)
It doesn't strike me as irrational to trust the overwhelming consensus opinion of professional independent reviewers and others who have driven the car over one pointedly divergent account.
 
As a matter of fact, that is exactly what I will do. You take care now.
 

 

#10305 of 16249 Re: Disappointed by 2008 CTS [readerreader] by cdnpinhead

Sep 19, 2007 (6:07 pm)

Replying to: readerreader (Sep 19, 2007 5:25 pm)
Thank you, for your incredibly helpful input, here and elsewhere.

#10306 of 16249 Re: Disappointed by 2008 CTS [readerreader] by shipo

Sep 19, 2007 (7:40 pm)

Replying to: readerreader (Sep 19, 2007 5:25 pm)
So you're saying that you'll buy a CTS based upon what others say without checking out the competition yourself? Yikes, that's scary.
 
Do yourself a favor, go and drive the other cars, I trust that you'll then understand what I'm talking about. FWIW, I'm not the only one who's commented about the poor seating arrangements in the CTS.
 
Best Regards,
Shipo

#10307 of 16249 Re: Disappointed by 2008 CTS [shipo] by circlew

Sep 20, 2007 (3:59 am)

Replying to: shipo (Sep 19, 2007 3:56 pm)
I wouldn't waste my finger power to trash the CTS. I will use my buying power to buy the best again. Driving is believing.
 
AFAIC, NO CIGAR for GM on CTS. Nice trucks, however. Forgot long ago how to build satisfaction, IMHO.
 
Regards,
OW

#10308 of 16249 Re: Disappointed by 2008 CTS [readerreader] by blueguydotcom

Sep 20, 2007 (9:29 am)

Replying to: readerreader (Sep 19, 2007 5:25 pm)
Professional journalists make their money and enjoy a fun lifestyle expressly because they bend over for car companies. In the end, they moderate their opinions so they get invited to (and flown to) the next press junket in Malta or Hawaii or Geneva.
 
I don't believe it when they say that a BMW is good or a Caddy is fun because their opinion is untrustworthy. The only opinion that should count when buying a car: your own. Nobody from Edmunds is going to buy the car for you, so while Karl Bauer may like the CTS, unless he's paying for my car, I'd don't give a hoot how he views the CTS because he has a vested interest in not offending Caddy.

#10309 of 16249 Re: Disappointed by 2008 CTS [blueguydotcom] by nwalbert

Sep 20, 2007 (2:58 pm)

Replying to: blueguydotcom (Sep 20, 2007 9:29 am)
Very well said, and quite accurate.
 
I have to agree with the majority of people who have actually driven the vehicle, the new CTS does not compare favorably to any of the other vehicles mentioned in this discussion.
 
To each their own however, if we all wanted the exact same thing out of a vehicle, they would not manufacture all these different choices.

#10310 of 16249 Re: Disappointed by 2008 CTS [nwalbert] by plekto

Sep 20, 2007 (8:07 pm)

Replying to: nwalbert (Sep 20, 2007 2:58 pm)
Sometimes I really wonder what planet peolpe here are on.
 
Look - the CTS isn't a Towncar in the rear. It's a rear seat meant for smallish people or as a temporary thing. GM's philosophy is that if you need permanent use of a back seat for large adults, go buy a DTS or some SUV. I have to agree with this. The back seat isn't an issue to me.
 
I am 5'7" and I found it to be fine. Not a Maybach, but not bad - and a lot better than trying to cram in the back seat of, say, a C class.
 
The handling is softer than a 3. Yeah, so what. It's NOT a small car. It's marketed towards U.S. roads, which means construction areas, expansion joints, potholes, and the like in most urban areas. I just visited relatives in Chicago - wow the roads out there were a joke. I can SO see why a big floaty Buick is popular there. Their roads are impossible bumpy and poor. A 3 series would be too agressive.
 
IMO, GM does a fine act of trying to better the E class(which appears to be one of the cars they tried to beat/compete against).
 
For the price, without all of the useless bling and sunroof, it's a very nice car that can be had the next time GM runs some incentives, for about $33-34K.

#10311 of 16249 Re: Disappointed by 2008 CTS [plekto] by shipo

Sep 20, 2007 (8:24 pm)

Replying to: plekto (Sep 20, 2007 8:07 pm)
I don't think anybody ever tried to compare the CTS to a Towncar, however, I did compare the rear seating to a Honda Civic, and the Civic is much more comfortable.
 
Best Regards,
Shipo

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