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Coupes & Convertibles Chevrolet Corvette Corvettes and all things about them
1906 messages, Last post on Nov 30, 2009 at 12:07 PM
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Replying to: fedlawman (Oct 28, 2007 9:42 am) If all that refinement means that on the 12 turns at Sears Point I gain .1 sec per turn for 1.2sec's and loose .5 sec on each of the three long straights to a stock Vette that came off the showroom floor in 2001 for $45k, I guess I agree that the Vette will be leading at the end of the lap. The wife's 2004, end of the run for the C5 came off at $39k. That's a good reason to wait for the end of the C6, IMO. Now what were they getting for the Boxster in 2001? To those that want a street touring car, ok the Boxster is probably fun on a canyon road, just like my old MG was fun. More refined, sure, but never going to do much more. And considering all the bicycles on canyon roads in CA, I'd be very careful on that drive. I've done over 100 track days in the last 4+ years on a stock engine coupe that now has just over 72k miles and all it gets is oil changes and lots of tires and new brake pads/fluid. Weight does have a cost. As for the sophistication of OHC vs. push rods, do I really care when I put down the right foot? And on road trips, really going touring, the 24cu ft of storage is truly amazing. Randy
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Replying to: starrow68 (Oct 28, 2007 4:44 pm) Canyon roads or less are where most of us will probably be driving. You seem to assume all of us live in CA. I ride and drive roads like them though, and seldom see a car. Deer - a BIG problem, an Amish buggy once in awhile, a flock of wild turkeys maybe. I'll occasionally run up to 130 with my VTX 1800, but can't get the same sensation with a car, so why bother? Same at the drag strip. A bike is more fun. Twisties? That's another story, but I think a smaller Boxster will give me a sweeter experience. But then, It's my buck, isn't it? I'll buy anything if the price is right. Could even be a Vette. I certainly have nothing against them. Just overkill for what I'll use it for at this point in time. And, I have always felt that if I was brand loyal, no matter what, I was cheating myself of different experiences. When I try new things I learn. Boxsters start in the lower $40k range. They are NOT equivalent cars. It's apples and oranges. Take your pick, you're paying for it. Yes, they're both sports cars, but that's about it. |
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Replying to: starrow68 (Oct 28, 2007 4:44 pm) Obviously, you enjoy fast laps and gobs of torque - the Corvette is the perfect street/track weapon for you. I happen to enjoy a different kind of car - a lightweight, 4 cylinder that can barely hang with a V6 Honda Accord in a straight line, but on a road course, would give your Corvette fits. It's playful and easy to drive in all conditions, forgiving in nature, super responsive and communicative, and simply a blast to drive. The point is, both the rapier and the broadsword are very capable and can be a lot of fun. Both have a loyal following and both are worthy competitors. You favor one and I favor the other - and neither of us is right or wrong. The difference between us is that, while I respect and admire the "broadsword" for what it is and acknowledge it's strengths, you dismiss the rapier as weak, inferior, and overpriced. Why don't you just admit that the two are equal, yet different in their approach? Apples and oranges as '55396' accurately pointed out.
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Replying to: fedlawman (Oct 28, 2007 6:45 pm) least out here, Boxster's are pricier than base Vette's. I did look at the Boxster and the one I liked some was near $60k vs. the $45k I got for all the options I wanted. All I'm discussing is road courses, not autocrosses, and in that environment as a leading edge baby boomer the Vette has so far been superior to the Boxster with me behind the wheel. That is a pretty big handicap since I've been to racing schools where I'm 5, 8 and sometimes 10 seconds off the younger kids driving equal cars. And I'm even giving up more street tires vs. the occasional DOT-R shod Boxster. Now I do realize that not everyone wants to drive on race tracks, but for me it provides some measure. There's a guy with a newer Cayman S that has more experience than I do in other cars and has run just better than my Vette at some tracks, just off at others, but I'll admit from other views of the car it is better all around than the stock C5. There are lots of 911's out on track and that means most pass me but there are others that have much more performance available but are slower. All that proves is that it is mostly the driver and then how much you wish to spend on top of that. As to apples and oranges, why so? Same price range unless you want some of the pricier options on the Porsche. Just because a stock Vette will compete with 911's doesn't make that a better comparison, IMO. |
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Replying to: fedlawman (Oct 28, 2007 6:45 pm) I'd really be interested in why? I didn't start timing until I had more than a year on track but at some point I wanted to have a measure of improvement. Actually, I came along as slow as anyone else I know. I ran in entry level groups with instructors for a full two years, hey it was free. Then I ran in lower intermediate for another year + until I got kicked out at an event where there were fewer folks in the next group up and they wanted to equalize the track load. It never bothered me waiting for a signal to pass, it was all about hitting the line. As I've noted to several folks, if you aren't on the line, you only think you're going fast! Randy |
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Replying to: starrow68 (Oct 31, 2007 4:40 pm) You answered your own question - it's about the drive, not the speed/time. It's about exploring/pushing limits in a controlled setting, experimenting with different lines/techniques, and learning to recognize and work the subtle cues that a fine sports car transmits through it's steering, brakes, chassis, etc. There's not much subtlety in a Corvette. But I do agree with you in one regard - if you don't appreciate or care about the Cayman's impeccable quality, refinement, feel, and response, then save yourself $15,000 and enjoy the torque.
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Replying to: starrow68 (Oct 31, 2007 4:40 pm) Well, if you think you're going fast, what else matters? But then, if you're like me, when I see a bike ahead, I have to catch him and see if I can pass. And, if I think I'm going fast, all is well until someone passes me. I would love track time IF there was a track close, and IF my priorities were to throw money at chasing a tenth of a second while chasing my tail round and round in a circle. Maybe at 21 it would have been top priority. And it was, but in different ways. I always had one of the faster muscle cars. Today, I prefer to spend my $$ in other ways, like a winter home in AZ, or play Scrooge McDuck. Oh, I would still run a course if I had the chance, just for the experience, but now, when I have done something I wanted to, I would rather move on and experience something else. I always enjoy those tight little roads though, and a Boxster or a BMW 335 is more than adequate for that. In fact, after driving all of the BMW's, the 335 is my choice with the 6xx series coming in second. 335 will whup the 6 though. The upcoming 1xx series with the same 300 HP twin turbo six should be awesome. It will be interesting to see how it does against the Vette. Especially if there is an M. Bad for the ego to get passed by a bottom line six. I found a track in Texas where you drive an outlaw car. Seems like it was a day or so, and you got 100 laps for $3000. THAT, I would love to do. I always felt that if I could find something that would leap up in the air and turn a somersault when I hit the throttle................ This would be about as close as you could get, other than a dragster of a funny car. On the street, my old Kawasaki 2 stroke 750CC triple was close. Within 3 months I had modified it. Couldn't keep the front wheel on the ground. Ain't toys fun. Takes lots more finesse to shave seconds off on a road course, I would guess.
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Replying to: fedlawman (Oct 31, 2007 8:26 pm) But I do agree with you in one regard - if you don't appreciate or care about the Cayman's impeccable quality, refinement, feel, and response, then save yourself $15,000 and enjoy the torque. " Well, I would agree that most don't feel the Vette is subtle. On the other hand, it is a far different world with the C5 than prior gen's and the C6 is another step in the right direction. Try one some time. As for enjoying the torque vs. the Cayman S, I noted that it is the better car although it's hard to say with equal drivers. It takes more skill to drive the 911, or, I think the Cayman than a 50/50 Vette. I see guys that can make 911 RS clones do amazing things with much less HP. The Cayman takes more talent as was evident when I coached a Cayman driver at the Buttonwillow track for a day. Now, admittedly the guy was never going to be very fast but the car made up for a lot, until he forget that the blind entry to the Off Ramp went off camber and instead of hitting the brakes before entry he hit the throttle and then hit the brakes too hard after his turn in. We ended up about 50' into the dirt and to give the kid credit he did lock down and only slid sideways so he got all the following wave of dirt through his window and not mine. As I noted, he was very lucky, me too, since we only got to about 4' from the tire bales. So, I appreciate the Cayman and it may well be worth the extra $15k, but for equal bucks, the Vette is far superior to the Boxster. Randy
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Replying to: 55396 (Oct 31, 2007 9:27 pm) ... " I have to agree that if there is something up the next straight that wasn't there before it gets me going since I know I'm closing it. I don't know many on track that look at it otherwise. As to chasing the last 1/10th, well there aren't that many kids out on track, mostly folks that have achieved something and do tracking vs. golf, etc. Racers are a different crowd. As to getting 1/10th's off, I've been doing it for 5 years and just set some new personal bests at Thunderhill so there is always more to achieve. I'm glad to say  Randy
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Replying to: starrow68 (Nov 01, 2007 5:56 pm) Not to drag this on, but...regarding "equal bucks," I'd say the Honda S2000 is also superior to the Vette - and significantly less expensive. Apples and oranges I know, but the Honda is simply telepathic - magical (and I have a place in my heart for high-strung inline 4's). Keep the rubber side down Randy.
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