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Coupes & Convertibles Chevrolet Corvette Corvettes and all things about them
1908 messages, Last post on Dec 02, 2009 at 5:37 PM
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Replying to: bolivar (Oct 18, 2007 2:02 pm) I have driven the C6, and as I have said before, I think it is a terrific sports car. I just don't think it possesses the chassis or driveline refinement/composure that a Porsche has. I think for starters, the next generation Corvette would benefit from a fully independent suspension and a smaller, more efficient (but just as powerful) V8 with multiple cams and variable valve timing. The Corvette is what it is - an American icon that is not intended to steal sales away from Porsche or Ferrari. And I think the Corvette is exactly what it should be - don't make it mid-engined, don't build it out of carbon fiber, and don't jack the price up to $90,000+. No, the original point of my musings was simply to state that I don't believe a smattering Corvette parts could be assembled to create an exotic American sports car that competes head-to-head with the imports. That's basically what I think. 
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Replying to: bolivar (Oct 18, 2007 2:02 pm) nothing more than spening more money, in many cases for far less performance. I see comments about how great the Boxster is and have read the articles in the mags about how it is great on track. I then see that they were using an autocross (slow speed) track. Take it to a road course, 2+ miles with some room to get into triple digit speeds and even a stock C5 will be passing it with equal driver. After I had spent about a year on track I've never been passed by a Boxster, even with R compound tires and after market suspension set-up. The Cayman is another story, very capable but again, spend more and you usually get more. The 911 is great if you can master it but again the base car is sometimes 50% more than a base Vette, so why compare? As for why compare performance on track, when I started going to track events almost 5 years ago they were not that popular unless people had a dedicated track car. Yesterday I went to a track day at Thunderhill Raceway in Nor. Calif. and we had over 100 Corvettes on track. Amazing! Lots of first timers but also they filled the advanced and upper intermediate groups a couple weeks before the event. That worked out as an indicator of how many owners have taken the time to get on track with instruction in the past. I've even seen some all marque events that don't sell out so getting that many Vettes on track for a day was fun. There is another all Corvette weekend at Spring Mt. motorsports park in Pahrump, NV in two weeks. Sponsored by the Corvette Museum. If all you want is a touring car there are lots of choices, some are more sporty than others, enjoy what you choose and I will be having fun driving my C5 to Pahrump and then having a capable track car as well. Randy |
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Replying to: starrow68 (Oct 28, 2007 8:34 am) nothing more than spening more money, in many cases for far less performance." If by "less performance" you mean possessing linear and communicative steering, sublime suspension compliance, and a shifter that snicks into gear like hot butter on teflon, then I guess I agree with you. 
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Replying to: fedlawman (Oct 28, 2007 9:42 am) |
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Replying to: fedlawman (Oct 28, 2007 9:42 am) nothing more than spening more money, in many cases for far less performance." I fail to see why it has to be either-or. Having worked in design and development, drag raced bikes and cars, and own a 55 Chev with a 425 HP 396, I have seen both. I just don't see why something can't be designed to be refined and perform also. It's just a mindset, and it shouldn't cost much more to do it right in todays world of computer control, precise machining and robots, but the design must be right in the first place. Foreign manufactures seem to have figured it out. Any reason why we shouldn't measure up? I do think we have come a l o n g way though. |
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Replying to: fedlawman (Oct 28, 2007 9:42 am) If all that refinement means that on the 12 turns at Sears Point I gain .1 sec per turn for 1.2sec's and loose .5 sec on each of the three long straights to a stock Vette that came off the showroom floor in 2001 for $45k, I guess I agree that the Vette will be leading at the end of the lap. The wife's 2004, end of the run for the C5 came off at $39k. That's a good reason to wait for the end of the C6, IMO. Now what were they getting for the Boxster in 2001? To those that want a street touring car, ok the Boxster is probably fun on a canyon road, just like my old MG was fun. More refined, sure, but never going to do much more. And considering all the bicycles on canyon roads in CA, I'd be very careful on that drive. I've done over 100 track days in the last 4+ years on a stock engine coupe that now has just over 72k miles and all it gets is oil changes and lots of tires and new brake pads/fluid. Weight does have a cost. As for the sophistication of OHC vs. push rods, do I really care when I put down the right foot? And on road trips, really going touring, the 24cu ft of storage is truly amazing. Randy
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Replying to: starrow68 (Oct 28, 2007 4:44 pm) Canyon roads or less are where most of us will probably be driving. You seem to assume all of us live in CA. I ride and drive roads like them though, and seldom see a car. Deer - a BIG problem, an Amish buggy once in awhile, a flock of wild turkeys maybe. I'll occasionally run up to 130 with my VTX 1800, but can't get the same sensation with a car, so why bother? Same at the drag strip. A bike is more fun. Twisties? That's another story, but I think a smaller Boxster will give me a sweeter experience. But then, It's my buck, isn't it? I'll buy anything if the price is right. Could even be a Vette. I certainly have nothing against them. Just overkill for what I'll use it for at this point in time. And, I have always felt that if I was brand loyal, no matter what, I was cheating myself of different experiences. When I try new things I learn. Boxsters start in the lower $40k range. They are NOT equivalent cars. It's apples and oranges. Take your pick, you're paying for it. Yes, they're both sports cars, but that's about it. |
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Replying to: starrow68 (Oct 28, 2007 4:44 pm) Obviously, you enjoy fast laps and gobs of torque - the Corvette is the perfect street/track weapon for you. I happen to enjoy a different kind of car - a lightweight, 4 cylinder that can barely hang with a V6 Honda Accord in a straight line, but on a road course, would give your Corvette fits. It's playful and easy to drive in all conditions, forgiving in nature, super responsive and communicative, and simply a blast to drive. The point is, both the rapier and the broadsword are very capable and can be a lot of fun. Both have a loyal following and both are worthy competitors. You favor one and I favor the other - and neither of us is right or wrong. The difference between us is that, while I respect and admire the "broadsword" for what it is and acknowledge it's strengths, you dismiss the rapier as weak, inferior, and overpriced. Why don't you just admit that the two are equal, yet different in their approach? Apples and oranges as '55396' accurately pointed out.
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Replying to: fedlawman (Oct 28, 2007 6:45 pm) least out here, Boxster's are pricier than base Vette's. I did look at the Boxster and the one I liked some was near $60k vs. the $45k I got for all the options I wanted. All I'm discussing is road courses, not autocrosses, and in that environment as a leading edge baby boomer the Vette has so far been superior to the Boxster with me behind the wheel. That is a pretty big handicap since I've been to racing schools where I'm 5, 8 and sometimes 10 seconds off the younger kids driving equal cars. And I'm even giving up more street tires vs. the occasional DOT-R shod Boxster. Now I do realize that not everyone wants to drive on race tracks, but for me it provides some measure. There's a guy with a newer Cayman S that has more experience than I do in other cars and has run just better than my Vette at some tracks, just off at others, but I'll admit from other views of the car it is better all around than the stock C5. There are lots of 911's out on track and that means most pass me but there are others that have much more performance available but are slower. All that proves is that it is mostly the driver and then how much you wish to spend on top of that. As to apples and oranges, why so? Same price range unless you want some of the pricier options on the Porsche. Just because a stock Vette will compete with 911's doesn't make that a better comparison, IMO. |
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Replying to: fedlawman (Oct 28, 2007 6:45 pm) I'd really be interested in why? I didn't start timing until I had more than a year on track but at some point I wanted to have a measure of improvement. Actually, I came along as slow as anyone else I know. I ran in entry level groups with instructors for a full two years, hey it was free. Then I ran in lower intermediate for another year + until I got kicked out at an event where there were fewer folks in the next group up and they wanted to equalize the track load. It never bothered me waiting for a signal to pass, it was all about hitting the line. As I've noted to several folks, if you aren't on the line, you only think you're going fast! Randy |
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