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Mercedes-Benz SL and SLK (all models)

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What is this discussion about? Mercedes-Benz SL-Class, Convertible

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#97 of 766 toyotas1 by merc1 Mar 11, 2002 (11:26 pm)
See what you fail to realize is that Mercedes doesn't have prove a thing, it's Lexus that has to prove that they are worthy of this crowd and truth be told they ducked a direct confrontation by pricing the SC430 way below the previous SL500, as to not be up against the new one. Post #59 seems to point out the obvious that the SL500 outperforms the SC430 on the road, and with superior technology, styling among other things, obviously the BUYERS think it's worth the price premium over the SC430, doesn't matter what you think, the car is sold out. Seems like to me you're running out of steam, now you're down to counting the dollar difference since the car obviously speaks for itself.   sphinx99,   The two haven't been directly compared yet, but nobody is calling the SC the best car around either. This has been said about the new SL500. The SL did indeed had to sell on it's own merits ever since the XK8 arrived on the scene. You are right though, 10 years is a long time and I doubt that the new car will go that long without major changes like the previous one did.   M
#98 of 766 Benz by toyotas1 Mar 12, 2002 (6:34 am)
Who has said the SL is the flat-out best in the segment? Who? The Benz redesign shows that Benz may indeed be resting on it's lauerls, that's what I'm sayin'. Over 17000 people in the last year think the Lexus is as good or better than the Benz. That's the most significant statement of all! And your commentary sounds particularly hollow, given the first hand account posted right before you.......
#99 of 766 17,000 people? by v12power Mar 12, 2002 (6:43 am)
So these 17,000 people all considered spending an extra $25k to buy the SL? Did they even compare the two? I find that pretty unlikely, while the two seem to be on the same mission, I doubt very much that they were cross shopped much. The price gap is too large. The CLK comparo is very likely however. It looks to me like the CLK is the better car there. The new SL is out of Lexus' league. The two cars closest to the SL are the 911 cab and the XK8 conv. Even these are thousands less than the Benz. One is far more sporting, one is much less technically advanced and relies on style for sales. The new SL is in a class of one. Comparing it to the SC430 makes you look foolish.
#100 of 766 The only fool..... by toyotas1 Mar 12, 2002 (8:09 am)
is one who spends $25k more for the same experience! Lexus' success is defined by providing value the Germans can't (or won't), bottom line. Spending close to $90k for a car that isn't PERFECT (or doesn'r produce Golddust, not carbon monoxide!) is truly foolish.....
#101 of 766 No car is perfect by v12power Mar 12, 2002 (8:21 am)
That is an impossible standard to attain. Everybodys image of perfection is different.   The Lexus DOES NOT provide the same experience. The Lexus does not have Active Body Control or MBs industry leading brake by wire system. With the new braking system you never feel the old fashioned ABS pulse. This stuff is a much more important than the dumb nav system you keep harping on. If the structure of the CLK is better than the SC then the SL certainly raises the bar further yet. The SC may offer good value, to whom I am not sure but, it is a cheap SL knock off.   We will likely never see a direct comparison of these two cars by a major magazine. The reason behind that is that there is NO comparison here. I know that, the Host seems to know that, the automotive press seems to know it, looks to me like everybody knows it but toyotas1.
#102 of 766 wrong by sphinx99 Mar 12, 2002 (8:53 am)
I think you're stretching if you want to paint this as world vs toyotas1. It's not so simple. Like I said, I haven't read a single "this car knocked us out of our shoes" review yet. Not one. Not one review that has the kind of praise that you see cars like 360 Modenas and S2000s and BMW M3s getting on a monthly basis, review after review, year after year. More than one review appears to have negative bias. On top of that, a few people in this very post have driven the car (dschmidt) and had some issues with the car as well. So how exactly is it that the SL500 is world-vs-toyotas1? It sure seems to me like SL-loyalists-who-haven't-driven-the-2003-SL-yet versus SC-loyalists-who-haven't-driven-the-2003-SL-yet. Tell me, what was your opinion of the ABS system? When you stomped on the pedal, did it feel more responsive? (I'm not asking the brochure; I'm asking you.) And how did it compare to the DVD nav system on the Lexus? I assume you used it, since you drove the car and found it to be "dumb."   We haven't seen enough informed opinions on this car, just a lot of "well the SL has ABC and ABS and according to the brochure these are really cool things that the SC doesn't have, therefore the SL is better" comments and frankly, a lot of people wouldn't mind a "dumb" nav system over a "dumb" suspension system. You can't write off features in this class of cars as dumb, when this class of cars is *all* about packing as many features as possible into as small a space as you can. To its credit, when it comes to feature lists the SL has the SC beat. Heck, we haven't seen this many new gadgets since the 3000GT VR4 spyder. However I have learned that feature lists don't say a lot about feature utility, and unless you've actually used these different features, I don't see how you can say that one car's features are good while dismissing those of another car.
#103 of 766 by Mr_Shiftright HOST Mar 12, 2002 (8:55 am)
I don't think the cars are closely comparable, no, since the SL500 is much more the "sportscar" in terms of handling. The SC430 is obviously aimed at the softer XK8. However, given the level of luxury and performance you get, and if you can live with the weird styling, the SC430 is something of a bargain next to the SL500, if you are the type that doesn't tear around corners or demand a very high level of agility. The SC430 shows good numbers on skidpad, slolam, etc., but I can tell you from personal experience that it isn't happy doing it. This is a wide open road type of car.   So really, unless you are a very aggressive and sporty driver, and unless the SC styling turns you off, it's the better buy in terms of luxury for the money. As for status, well, Mercedes has the advantage of a long and rich history which Lexus can't do anything about. Still, you get points for driving a Lexus, there is no doubt.   Road & Track ran a great article a while back for the "Best 5 Convertibles" for the money, each in a different price class. They picked neither the Lexus or the SL500, and I agree with them about that.
#104 of 766 shifty by sphinx99 Mar 12, 2002 (8:59 am)
What cars did R&T pick? (I'm curious.)   I expect the XLR to compete much more closely with the SL500. I agree that the SC and SL aren't too comparable. They target slightly different audiences. There probably would be some cross-shopping, but then again you will have people cross-shopping an Excursion against a 911 to figure out what they want to be seen in, or what their priorities are.
#105 of 766 by Mr_Shiftright HOST Mar 12, 2002 (9:05 am)
Lessee, sphinx, I'll try to remember them. Miata LS of course in the bottom range, Corvette, BMW M3, Porsche and Ferrari. The criteria were (all 3 together) Excitement, Entertainment and Value. So given those aspects of the choice, I could see where both the Lexus and SL500 lose out, for different reasons.

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