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Mercedes-Benz SL and SLK (all models)

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What is this discussion about? Mercedes-Benz SL-Class, Convertible

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#69 of 766 I'm want Benz!! by toyotas1 Mar 10, 2002 (2:34 pm)
(No disrespect, Shifty.) He's talkin' stuff, the he has to leave the country to find blind love for his beloved SL. Who reads Sports Car International? What's it's circulation? 50,000? I LOVE R&T, especially when they compared the IS300 to the C320 and 330i and the IS won by TKO, BUT they are the Audi of the big three! The runt of the litter! C&D and MT are the lead dogs, and their love for Benz is obviously waning. "Benz" better show Lexus more respect, or I'll never leave him alone! To sell over 15000 units of a $60+k convertible in one year is nothing for HIM to lift his nose up at!! Show respect, Benz! Whose your Daddy! What's my name!.......
#70 of 766 by sphinx99 Mar 10, 2002 (3:27 pm)
What's really startling here is that 'kdude' is the only person here who hasn't spouted off about things he doesn't know. (Yes Merc that includes you too, unless you've done some serious seat time in the '03 SL500... please let us know... and yes you too toyota1... how was your testdrive of the SL.... and yes, me too...)   I'm willing to allow that the SC430 might be a better car than the SL500 until I see a head-to-head that says otherwise. I'm also willing to allow that the SL500 might be better than the SC430. I think the problem here is that some people who potentially have spent zero time in *either* of these cars are nevertheless proclaiming a judgement in absolute terms. I'm *not* willing to blindly pray to the SL demigod because of the star on the hood; I haven't done a lot of seat time in Benz cars but I did put enough time in a ML to know that the company is capable of putting $15k interior quality in $50k cars, and that being my first MB "experience" I guess you could say that Benz and I didn't have a good first dance. I'd consider it highly unusual that they'd make that sort of mistake on the SL. I don't expect that they did. But none of us here can say that the SL500 is absolutely worth whatever the premium is for it, when in most places you have to get on a list just to do a test drive still. As far as I'm concerned, the 2003 SL500 is as unproven as that shot-in-the-dark Cadillac XLR - it's a classic when its owners and evaluators say it is, but not a moment before. (In my opinion.)   If kdude owns a SC430 and feels that the SL500 is worth the SC depreciation hit + SL premium to step up to the SL, *that* says a lot more to me than one person claiming that Toyota styling ages well or another person claiming that Benz quality really comes through when you cut a 1980 model in half.
#71 of 766 shifty by sphinx99 Mar 10, 2002 (3:34 pm)
"My point was that if you can't see the $25K difference between an SL500 and an SC430, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THERE ISN'T ONE (emphasis added but no shouting intended). I was only suggesting WHY you or someone couldn't readily see the $25K. It's in the a) technology, and b) the details."   I agree with this. However the third option, namely "c) the difference isn't there" always, ALWAYS needs to be kept on the list until you've actually cut both cars in two, examined both and compared notes. That's my only point.   I still feel that the SL55 is probably the closest thing to a perfect convertible currently on the market, unless they decide to make a topless Vanquish. I honestly don't know about SC430 vs SL500. I'd rather have a SL55 over both of them.
#72 of 766 I'm not saying..... by toyotas1 Mar 10, 2002 (3:43 pm)
the Lexus is better, just as close to perfection as the SL. It needs better seats, a lower first gear, and some suspension tweaks for better ride/handling balance. The SL needs to upgrade the interior materials, add some 1998 interior luxury features, lose those stupid hood vents, and lower the price below $80k. And where is "Benz", Mr. Talk-a-lot-of-stuff.........I want him to read my last two posts, and have a report on my desk by 9AM.......
#73 of 766 by Mr_Shiftright HOST Mar 10, 2002 (3:52 pm)
As far as I'm concerned, the SC430 is not the equal of the SL500 until the year 2049, which is 47 years from now. Certainly the LS400 hasn't dethroned Mercedes these past 12 years, so I don't know where all these magical Lexus powers are coming from. The SC430 is an upstart with no track record. It could turn out to be the biggest turkey of the decade. How can we know? Look at Toyota's grief already with sludge, etc.   Every SL I ever drove was MUCH better than the one before it (excluding the first Gullwing, which was really a race-car derivative and not in the "family").   After doing this for 30 years, I've come to have faith that the new one will be great, without yet driving it. But I will soon enough, and I bet I won't be disappointed.   So what's wrong with me relying on my own experience? Seems fair enough that I should have faith in the new SL500 and its ability to continue to blow off any competitors. Unlike boxers, cars don't get weak in the knees if their creators keep re-creating them.
#74 of 766 As Mercedes is learning, the hard way.... by toyotas1 Mar 10, 2002 (4:04 pm)
Toyota/Lexus is no ordinary "competitor"! The SC sales are HUGE! The days of shrugging off Lexus ended years ago. Lexus is THE #1 selling luxury marque in this country, bar none. THAT'S how far they've come, in 12 years. Imagine what they can do with another 12? Mercedes BETTER start adding some content and value to their cars, SL included. Lexus has passed them, BMW is flashing it's lights, who's next?? The idea here is to sell cars, there can only be one "Raw Dog". Right now, it ain't Mercedes.....
#75 of 766 shifty by sphinx99 Mar 10, 2002 (4:21 pm)
There's nothing wrong with trusting experience as long as we all keep in mind that we all will have different experiences. Mine doesn't speak well to MB. The first MB I drove was full of squeaks and rattles, my "formative" enthusiast years have been full of magazine comparos that consistently rank the MB entry 3rd place in a field of seven regardless of the review, and the majority of people in my age group looking for cars of this class appear to favor BMW and Lexus by a pretty wide margin.   Therefore (the following to answer Merc1's question) this is why the SL's heritage may be good enough for you, or for shifty, but it's not enough for me. I *need* the wine glass commercial for a Mercedes. I *need* ten stunning reviews in a row. I *need* to see the press giving a Mercedes the kind of gushing praise that is currently given to Z06s and S2000s and 330i's, because I never owned a 1980 Benz, I didn't grow up on the cars, and I only sat in a SL at NAIAS and thought the seats had no support.   What I'm saying is that it's *not* good enough for a carmaker to rely on its heritage forever. Maybe for stretches of a few years at a time, but this industry takes no prisoners. Everyone is after everyone else's market share, and everyone is painfully aware of the inevitable turnover in owners as potential customers finish school, get a job, and turn to the television and magazine and friends (and not to the SL's "heritage") to figure out what they want to drive.   Moreover, MB knows this. That is why the company is selling a mid-$20s coupe. I saw one in the parking lot where I live today, white paint. It looked great. It was perhaps the nicest looking car in the parking lot. It caught my attention, as well as my brother in law's attention as we drove past it. THAT is a positive lasting image. That's why the SL500 will ultimately be hurt, not helped, if the press is criticizing its lack of an in-dash CD changer, while its proponents say that problems with the current model should be brushed aside because the SL of the 1970s was so great. Some of us weren't even alive in the 1970s.   I don't think MB is in terrible shape. But I do know that everyone seems to think that the 7-series is a lot more fun to drive than the S-class, and that the LS430 is a lot more luxurious and solid. Everyone seems to think that the Boxster is more prestigious and the S2000 more fun than the SLK. That the 330 is more desirable and the Audi more classy than the C-class. In the last few years I haven't really read anything that was truly superlative about a MB vehicle. Everything usually ends up sounding like, "the Benz was nice but it was expensive and xxxxxxx was more fun while yyyyyy offered more value." And where MB does grab headlines is with the cheap headliner on their new SUV, or their low ranking in reliability. If MB wants to stay on top of the hill, I think they need to start scoring more unquestioned home runs. And no, that's not because Lexus alone is going to dethrone them. Lexus is just one company. If they don't start building best-bar-none cars, then Lexus, BMW, Audi, Cadillac, Porsche, Acura and Infiniti *all* will dethrone them. Like I said, this industry takes no prisoners, and if MB manages to fend off the SC430 without taking too much of a beating, the XLR is standing next in line with a baseball bat... and behind it a BMW 6-series... and behind it a G35 coupe... and behind it an evolved Acura Dualnote come alive... and behind it... etc. etc.
#76 of 766 Well done, sphincter! by toyotas1 Mar 10, 2002 (4:39 pm)
I mean, sphinxy (I couldn't resist!). I'll save my assessment of the C230 coupe for another time. Benz better ante up and kick in, because World War Three has begun. The Americans are waiting for reiforcements, and the Japanese and Germans are really knee-deep in it! I LOVE the car indusrty! The new 6 will take care of the CLK Cabrio, the SC fights the SL (from the sea) and the CLK430 (from land).....
#77 of 766 by sphinx99 Mar 10, 2002 (4:52 pm)
Don't take this personally toyotas1 but you're too pro-Lexus for us to be on the same side. Lexus has thrown up some stinkers, and as far as I'm personally concerned, if I were blindfolded and forced to choose, I'd choose the SL500 over the SC430 any day. I think the LS430 is a fabulous car in its own right. I'm not sure about the SC430. However, that decision to choose the SL500 has more to do with the ugly SC styling (IMO) than with the SL's innate strengths which I still believe need more attention.
#78 of 766 I never said..... by toyotas1 Mar 10, 2002 (5:13 pm)
you had good taste, just a good point!

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