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Mercedes-Benz SL and SLK (all models)

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What is this discussion about? Mercedes-Benz SL-Class, Convertible

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#64 of 766 Also.... by toyotas1 Mar 10, 2002 (12:43 pm)
The new Benz design, while classically elegant, might be "played out" in 2-3 years. Some say the Lexus design is too "trendy", but Toyota/Lexus more aggressive designs tend to age very well (Supra/Orignial SC/RX 300/GS). Since the Benz will probably be with us 'til 2010, let's see if it is seen as iconic in 2009 as it is in 2002. I wish it well, I LIKE the car.......
#65 of 766 toyotas1 by merc1 Mar 10, 2002 (1:28 pm)
Oh my gawd....if I'm "silent" on these feeble little issues that you've brought to the table then that must mean the "issues" that you have on the SL500 aren't "issues" to me. Seems like to me that you and to a lesser extant C&D had to find something to nit-pick on the car, because the market (i.e buyers) are standing in line for the car. Who on earth cares about the dash vents and two minor retro styling cues when the rest of the car is so right? Please, your argument is so tired and weak to the point where you're constantly saying the same thing over and over, dash vents and 2 retro styling cues....big deal. The car is a masterpiece. Seems like to me that if you can fault is dash vents and a couple of retro styling details, you've got a hell of a car on your hands.   When are you going to wake up...the Lexus SC is OUTCLASSED by the SL. Everyone can see that, and I didn't mean the SC430 was dust, it's your argument that has been reduced to dust. I never said the SC430 wasn't a good car, but I am saying the SL500 is a better car. Clearly. Did you not read what I just said about C&D and Mercedes-Benzes? They aren't big fans of MB cars. Again pick up another magazine to get another perspective on the SL500. Styling is a personal thing because if you bothered to read Road and Track you'll see they like the retro cues. Again, see what SCI (Sports Car International) had to say, or better yet, read post #59 again.   One has the interior of a 35K car? PROVE IT! Where oh where have you read that or better yet when have you seen or been in a SL to know this? Never, thats when.   Never said the SL was perfect. What (more than a few posts back) I said was that the SL is a lot closer to be being the perfect convertible than the SC is. When you're ready to believe your own admission that the SL500 is better than the SC430 you let me know.   "Pay respect to the competiton", are you serious? You simply haven't a clue.   M
#66 of 766 Sounds like..... by toyotas1 Mar 10, 2002 (2:01 pm)
someone needs to spend some time in the angry corner! All of the sudden, you're Oliver Stone? I've got your gunman on the grassy knoll, ok? Is Motor Trend biased against MB too? Pick up this months issue and explain the FOUR lost comparisons? All I'm saying is that for $90k, I don't want to see ANY chinks in the armor! You can throw all the gadgets in the world on the car, after 10 years between redesigns, it could have been better. And show some respect! You are sound so ?.......like a Mercedes engineer in 1989 (Lexus? Big Toyotas? Selling against us? They won't last 3 years!)....... who's your Daddy now?.....
#67 of 766 Your like Floyd Patterson...... by toyotas1 Mar 10, 2002 (2:05 pm)
against Muhammed Ali. When you show respect for Lexus, I'll stop taggin' you. What's my name.......
#68 of 766 by Mr_Shiftright HOST Mar 10, 2002 (2:21 pm)
The boxing analogy is a good one. I like boxing because there is no BS about it. You are in the ring for all to see, and there's no bluff.   So if you want to put the SL500 and the SC430 in the marketing ring, I think I'll play the favorite. One never knows, but I've seen the SL use its muscle before to knock out many a bragging contender, whereas I've only seen the SC430 beat up on the little Audi TT and Saabs.   I don't think Lexus wants to go toe to toe with the SL just yet (maybe someday, if it gains confidence from the SC sales), and this is why the SC is marketed conspicuously lower in price . You gotta remember, the SL reputation has been going strong for over 47 years!   Like it or not, the car has racked up an unprecedented record.
#69 of 766 I'm want Benz!! by toyotas1 Mar 10, 2002 (2:34 pm)
(No disrespect, Shifty.) He's talkin' stuff, the he has to leave the country to find blind love for his beloved SL. Who reads Sports Car International? What's it's circulation? 50,000? I LOVE R&T, especially when they compared the IS300 to the C320 and 330i and the IS won by TKO, BUT they are the Audi of the big three! The runt of the litter! C&D and MT are the lead dogs, and their love for Benz is obviously waning. "Benz" better show Lexus more respect, or I'll never leave him alone! To sell over 15000 units of a $60+k convertible in one year is nothing for HIM to lift his nose up at!! Show respect, Benz! Whose your Daddy! What's my name!.......
#70 of 766 by sphinx99 Mar 10, 2002 (3:27 pm)
What's really startling here is that 'kdude' is the only person here who hasn't spouted off about things he doesn't know. (Yes Merc that includes you too, unless you've done some serious seat time in the '03 SL500... please let us know... and yes you too toyota1... how was your testdrive of the SL.... and yes, me too...)   I'm willing to allow that the SC430 might be a better car than the SL500 until I see a head-to-head that says otherwise. I'm also willing to allow that the SL500 might be better than the SC430. I think the problem here is that some people who potentially have spent zero time in *either* of these cars are nevertheless proclaiming a judgement in absolute terms. I'm *not* willing to blindly pray to the SL demigod because of the star on the hood; I haven't done a lot of seat time in Benz cars but I did put enough time in a ML to know that the company is capable of putting $15k interior quality in $50k cars, and that being my first MB "experience" I guess you could say that Benz and I didn't have a good first dance. I'd consider it highly unusual that they'd make that sort of mistake on the SL. I don't expect that they did. But none of us here can say that the SL500 is absolutely worth whatever the premium is for it, when in most places you have to get on a list just to do a test drive still. As far as I'm concerned, the 2003 SL500 is as unproven as that shot-in-the-dark Cadillac XLR - it's a classic when its owners and evaluators say it is, but not a moment before. (In my opinion.)   If kdude owns a SC430 and feels that the SL500 is worth the SC depreciation hit + SL premium to step up to the SL, *that* says a lot more to me than one person claiming that Toyota styling ages well or another person claiming that Benz quality really comes through when you cut a 1980 model in half.
#71 of 766 shifty by sphinx99 Mar 10, 2002 (3:34 pm)
"My point was that if you can't see the $25K difference between an SL500 and an SC430, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THERE ISN'T ONE (emphasis added but no shouting intended). I was only suggesting WHY you or someone couldn't readily see the $25K. It's in the a) technology, and b) the details."   I agree with this. However the third option, namely "c) the difference isn't there" always, ALWAYS needs to be kept on the list until you've actually cut both cars in two, examined both and compared notes. That's my only point.   I still feel that the SL55 is probably the closest thing to a perfect convertible currently on the market, unless they decide to make a topless Vanquish. I honestly don't know about SC430 vs SL500. I'd rather have a SL55 over both of them.
#72 of 766 I'm not saying..... by toyotas1 Mar 10, 2002 (3:43 pm)
the Lexus is better, just as close to perfection as the SL. It needs better seats, a lower first gear, and some suspension tweaks for better ride/handling balance. The SL needs to upgrade the interior materials, add some 1998 interior luxury features, lose those stupid hood vents, and lower the price below $80k. And where is "Benz", Mr. Talk-a-lot-of-stuff.........I want him to read my last two posts, and have a report on my desk by 9AM.......
#73 of 766 by Mr_Shiftright HOST Mar 10, 2002 (3:52 pm)
As far as I'm concerned, the SC430 is not the equal of the SL500 until the year 2049, which is 47 years from now. Certainly the LS400 hasn't dethroned Mercedes these past 12 years, so I don't know where all these magical Lexus powers are coming from. The SC430 is an upstart with no track record. It could turn out to be the biggest turkey of the decade. How can we know? Look at Toyota's grief already with sludge, etc.   Every SL I ever drove was MUCH better than the one before it (excluding the first Gullwing, which was really a race-car derivative and not in the "family").   After doing this for 30 years, I've come to have faith that the new one will be great, without yet driving it. But I will soon enough, and I bet I won't be disappointed.   So what's wrong with me relying on my own experience? Seems fair enough that I should have faith in the new SL500 and its ability to continue to blow off any competitors. Unlike boxers, cars don't get weak in the knees if their creators keep re-creating them.

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