Last post on Jul 24, 2012 at 10:07 AM
You are in the Mercedes-Benz SL/SLK-Class
What is this discussion about?
Mercedes-Benz SL-Class, Convertible
#62 of 786 Two Final Points....
Mar 10, 2002 (11:33 am)
Shiftright........ the two probable factors in the price difference of the Sc and the SL are one, lower labor cost/efficiencies, and two, the extra safety/engineering technologies added in the SL. Obviously, if JD Power has a worthy opinion, Lexus vehicles are built to last as long and as reliable (if not more so) than any Benz....... and you seemed to miss the criticizm by C&D. They're saying that Bex TOOK HYUNDAIS interior pieces, implying lower quality/luxurious interior materials than may be required for the price. This ties in with the disappointed tenor of the article, harping on what they expected, but didn't get in the 2003 redesign......... Merc - YOU are the one pushing this argument by ignoring facts, being stubborn, and showing no respect for the competition. I'm TRYING to be HONEST! Now C&D all of the sudden has no credibility? Can you HONESTLY say sfter reading hat article that they were IMPRESSED by the redesigned car? And you LOVE the vents on the hood and fender? It doesn't smack of "Pontiac-esque", tacked-on style? Should they ignore such a gaff on a car that is redesigned every three presidents? Are you willing to allow that someone else makes an appealing competitor? Your silence on these issues borders of cowardice. I'm showing proper respect for a legend. That certainly doesn't mean that the Lexus is "dust" or outclassed by any means. The integrity of the SL was definitely questioned in the article, do you deny that?...... If I was there, I would have picked the CLK too, as driving dynamics are of supreme inportance i these comparisons. All I'm saying is this issue is a PERFECT bass for discussion of the differences of the two cars (SL and SC). Both are flawed, both have some integrity issues, one has the seats and the drive of a Buick, while one has the interior of a $35k car, not an $85k car. That's my point. The issue clearly sowed that these cars are more alike than different. When you can show fair respect for the new competition, and admit the new car's flaws have been exposed, you let me know........
Mar 10, 2002 (12:30 pm)
Well, I kind of "inhale" an entire automobile. No car suits me perfectly, or impresses me totally. Some items are SMALL and irritating, some LARGE and irritating.
So I guess my position is that, in its ENTIRETY, the SL500 impresses me more than the SC430, or any Lexus product (so far). Do I like everything about it? No. Some aspects of German design and engineering are not my favorites.
If the SC430 wants to say it outdid the SLK, I'd have to say that could be true. But next to the SL500, I just don't see where it approaches it much less matches it. Looks, technology, prestige and performance---- "match goes to Mercedes".
If further hands-on experience changes my view, I will be sure to post it.
Mar 10, 2002 (1:43 pm)
The new Benz design, while classically elegant, might be "played out" in 2-3 years. Some say the Lexus design is too "trendy", but Toyota/Lexus more aggressive designs tend to age very well (Supra/Orignial SC/RX 300/GS). Since the Benz will probably be with us 'til 2010, let's see if it is seen as iconic in 2009 as it is in 2002. I wish it well, I LIKE the car.......
#65 of 786 toyotas1
Mar 10, 2002 (2:28 pm)
Oh my gawd....if I'm "silent" on these feeble little issues that you've brought to the table then that must mean the "issues" that you have on the SL500 aren't "issues" to me. Seems like to me that you and to a lesser extant C&D had to find something to nit-pick on the car, because the market (i.e buyers) are standing in line for the car. Who on earth cares about the dash vents and two minor retro styling cues when the rest of the car is so right? Please, your argument is so tired and weak to the point where you're constantly saying the same thing over and over, dash vents and 2 retro styling cues....big deal. The car is a masterpiece. Seems like to me that if you can fault is dash vents and a couple of retro styling details, you've got a hell of a car on your hands.
When are you going to wake up...the Lexus SC is OUTCLASSED by the SL. Everyone can see that, and I didn't mean the SC430 was dust, it's your argument that has been reduced to dust. I never said the SC430 wasn't a good car, but I am saying the SL500 is a better car. Clearly. Did you not read what I just said about C&D and Mercedes-Benzes? They aren't big fans of MB cars. Again pick up another magazine to get another perspective on the SL500. Styling is a personal thing because if you bothered to read Road and Track you'll see they like the retro cues. Again, see what SCI (Sports Car International) had to say, or better yet, read post #59 again.
One has the interior of a 35K car? PROVE IT! Where oh where have you read that or better yet when have you seen or been in a SL to know this? Never, thats when.
Never said the SL was perfect. What (more than a few posts back) I said was that the SL is a lot closer to be being the perfect convertible than the SC is. When you're ready to believe your own admission that the SL500 is better than the SC430 you let me know.
"Pay respect to the competiton", are you serious? You simply haven't a clue.
#66 of 786 Sounds like.....
Mar 10, 2002 (3:01 pm)
someone needs to spend some time in the angry corner! All of the sudden, you're Oliver Stone? I've got your gunman on the grassy knoll, ok? Is Motor Trend biased against MB too? Pick up this months issue and explain the FOUR lost comparisons? All I'm saying is that for $90k, I don't want to see ANY chinks in the armor! You can throw all the gadgets in the world on the car, after 10 years between redesigns, it could have been better. And show some respect! You are sound so ?.......like a Mercedes engineer in 1989 (Lexus? Big Toyotas? Selling against us? They won't last 3 years!)....... who's your Daddy now?.....
#67 of 786 Your like Floyd Patterson......
Mar 10, 2002 (3:05 pm)
against Muhammed Ali. When you show respect for Lexus, I'll stop taggin' you. What's my name.......
Mar 10, 2002 (3:21 pm)
The boxing analogy is a good one. I like boxing because there is no BS about it. You are in the ring for all to see, and there's no bluff.
So if you want to put the SL500 and the SC430 in the marketing ring, I think I'll play the favorite. One never knows, but I've seen the SL use its muscle before to knock out many a bragging contender, whereas I've only seen the SC430 beat up on the little Audi TT and Saabs.
I don't think Lexus wants to go toe to toe with the SL just yet (maybe someday, if it gains confidence from the SC sales), and this is why the SC is marketed conspicuously lower in price .
You gotta remember, the SL reputation has been going strong for over 47 years!
Like it or not, the car has racked up an unprecedented record.
#69 of 786 I'm want Benz!!
Mar 10, 2002 (3:34 pm)
(No disrespect, Shifty.) He's talkin' stuff, the he has to leave the country to find blind love for his beloved SL. Who reads Sports Car International? What's it's circulation? 50,000? I LOVE R&T, especially when they compared the IS300 to the C320 and 330i and the IS won by TKO, BUT they are the Audi of the big three! The runt of the litter! C&D and MT are the lead dogs, and their love for Benz is obviously waning. "Benz" better show Lexus more respect, or I'll never leave him alone! To sell over 15000 units of a $60+k convertible in one year is nothing for HIM to lift his nose up at!! Show respect, Benz! Whose your Daddy! What's my name!.......
Mar 10, 2002 (4:27 pm)
What's really startling here is that 'kdude' is the only person here who hasn't spouted off about things he doesn't know. (Yes Merc that includes you too, unless you've done some serious seat time in the '03 SL500... please let us know... and yes you too toyota1... how was your testdrive of the SL.... and yes, me too...)
I'm willing to allow that the SC430 might be a better car than the SL500 until I see a head-to-head that says otherwise. I'm also willing to allow that the SL500 might be better than the SC430. I think the problem here is that some people who potentially have spent zero time in *either* of these cars are nevertheless proclaiming a judgement in absolute terms. I'm *not* willing to blindly pray to the SL demigod because of the star on the hood; I haven't done a lot of seat time in Benz cars but I did put enough time in a ML to know that the company is capable of putting $15k interior quality in $50k cars, and that being my first MB "experience" I guess you could say that Benz and I didn't have a good first dance. I'd consider it highly unusual that they'd make that sort of mistake on the SL. I don't expect that they did. But none of us here can say that the SL500 is absolutely worth whatever the premium is for it, when in most places you have to get on a list just to do a test drive still. As far as I'm concerned, the 2003 SL500 is as unproven as that shot-in-the-dark Cadillac XLR - it's a classic when its owners and evaluators say it is, but not a moment before. (In my opinion.)
If kdude owns a SC430 and feels that the SL500 is worth the SC depreciation hit + SL premium to step up to the SL, *that* says a lot more to me than one person claiming that Toyota styling ages well or another person claiming that Benz quality really comes through when you cut a 1980 model in half.
Mar 10, 2002 (4:34 pm)
"My point was that if you can't see the $25K difference between an SL500 and an SC430, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THERE ISN'T ONE (emphasis added but no shouting intended). I was only suggesting WHY you or someone couldn't readily see the $25K. It's in the a) technology, and b) the details."
I agree with this. However the third option, namely "c) the difference isn't there" always, ALWAYS needs to be kept on the list until you've actually cut both cars in two, examined both and compared notes. That's my only point.
I still feel that the SL55 is probably the closest thing to a perfect convertible currently on the market, unless they decide to make a topless Vanquish. I honestly don't know about SC430 vs SL500. I'd rather have a SL55 over both of them.