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Mercedes-Benz SL and SLK (all models)

786 messages,  Last post on Jul 24, 2012 at 10:07 AM

You are in the Mercedes-Benz SL/SLK-Class Forum.

What is this discussion about? Mercedes-Benz SL-Class, Convertible

Messages Page 45 of 80

#434 of 786 by merc1

Dec 25, 2002 (10:49 pm)

The "Domestics" have always had the Viper and Corvette and they still haven't dented the Euro crowd's supercars' appeal or anything else. The Viper is too hot, literally. The Vette is well a Vette, it gets no respect from that crowd. Ferrari, Porsche, Aston Martin, Lamborghini aren't in the least bit worried.
 
As far as the Japanese doing anything, Toyota is the one to watch. There maybe a SC500 to truly challenge the SL500. Toyota also has a V12 or V10 supercar on the drawing board, has for some time now. I can see Nissan doing a twin-turbo 350Z eventually, and the next GTR is coming here also. Mitsubishi, I doubt it. Then there is the next NSX to ponder, as secret as it's engine and specs are.
 
The true "sportscar" or supercar from Mercedes will be the SLR. I doubt if they'd ever strip down a SL55, thats not their game.
 
Of course the Euro crowd isn't sitting still either. The new Lamborghini Gallardo will be unveiled in March at Geneva. The Ferrari 456 replacement is also due in 2003 as is a facelift for the 360 Modena. Aston-Martin has the DB5 coming. A mild facelift of the 911 is due in 2004 (997). The Carrera GT, Pagani Zonda, and a rumored BMW V12 supercar are all due in the 2003-04 time frame. The Japanese aren't going to be able to keep up with this. Only Toyota has deep enough pockets and they can't take on the whole continent.
 
M

#435 of 786 by sphinx99

Dec 26, 2002 (9:05 am)

I know it's a bit off topic here but,
 
"Toyota also has a V12 or V10 supercar on the drawing board, has for some time now."
 
They do?

#436 of 786 Subaru & Mitsu have super rally cars, by mariner7

Dec 26, 2002 (9:51 am)

but not supercars. So do Focus & Peugeot. I doubt if Subu & Mitsu have the financial and technical whereabouts to develop supercars. Among the Japanese, only their big 3 have the means.

I doubt if the detroit Big 3 have it either. Vette still has OHV, for Chrissake! Ford GT probably will leak from whichever holes, and they can only build 3 of them next year.

The real supercar battle will be fought over by the Germans and Japanese. I'm very interested in that super beautiful SLR. The Italian makes, including Ferrari, may be foreign owned before too long, just like the British.

For now, the Japanese do not seem at all interested in putting super engines in their sedans, undoubtedly because their premium makes are not well established like the Germans. But that will probably change in the future.

#437 of 786 > horsepower by mariner7

Dec 31, 2002 (8:16 am)

NSX-R won that evo contest eventhough its relatively low on HP, 280 (conservatively), which is less than the Lancer Evo in the same test. The car in second, 911 c4s, has 320, also few nowadays.
 
The new RS6 & E55 are more powerful than the M5 but still trail the Bimmer in handling & finesse, by all accounts. So are some German makes emphasizing hp too much, and not emphasizing enough the really hard arts of handling and balance?

#438 of 786 by merc1

Dec 31, 2002 (2:32 pm)

No they aren't becuase the RS6 and E55 are probably better all-around cars than the single purposed M5. Outside of the "track" either are easier to live with. And it's not like the E55 and RS6 are "poor" handlers. The M5 just happens to be that much better.
 
M

#439 of 786 Just put down deposit on SL55 by fhill1

Dec 31, 2002 (4:21 pm)

Can't wait until it comes in. I am told 2 years is worst case. But I was able to buy a new 2002 Porsche Turbo with no wait. Has anyone recently picked up a new SL 55? For people who already have the SL500, any problems with the top?
 
Fhill1

#440 of 786 fhill1 by kdude

Dec 31, 2002 (11:29 pm)

Had my SL500 since September. No problem with the top (it's the nav system I still dislike). I have an order for a 2004 SL55 which we'll pick up late 2003. This one will go to my son. Another dealer would not even accept a deposit for this car (the same one I got my SL500 from!!). I am thinking of putting deposit down on a 2005 SL600 (late 2004 delivery), hoping that it will be more refined and quieter than a 55 and still deliver respectable performance.

#441 of 786 by merc1

Jan 01, 2003 (12:03 am)

The local dealer here (MB of Naperville) has a very sinister Black SL55 in their showroom right now, unsold.
 
M

#442 of 786 mariner7, merc1 by habitat1

Jan 01, 2003 (7:16 am)

Yes, mariner7, I do believe that AMG in particular has gone off the deep end with respect to horsepower. In my opinion, they would be far better served addressing some other deficiencies in their model line up. I can somewhat understand why Audi, with their checkered past, needs to do something extreme to get attention. But as an owner of an original 300SEL 6.3, I hold AMG to a higher expectation of true engineering excellence.
 
I currently own an 2002 M5 and my nearest neighbor owns a 2001 E55 which we have traded on several occasions. Neither of these cars, with a mere 350 to 400 horsepower, are lacking for power. But, with all due respect to the E55, it's chassis and (subjective) handling feel are stretched to the limit. Some would say beyond.
 
merc1: Please explain what, pray tell, makes you think the E55 is a "better all around car" than the M5? I trust you have put both of these cars through the paces yourself? IMO, the E55 achieves it's improved handling through a considerably harsher ride compared to any other E or S class Mercedes. For normal driving, the E55 is not as smooth as the M5. Under more "spirited" driving, the E55 performs well, but still feels considerably heavier and less nimble than the M5 in spite of both being 4,000 lb cars. That's not just my opinion, but my neighbor's as well. The ONLY reason he bought an E55 is that his wife doesn't drive a stick. So if an automatic transmission and bigger back seat are what make the E55 a better all around car, they are the only reasons I've identified in driving both.
 
Across the board, AMG had already raised raised the bar on horsepower and torque. And, as far as automatics go, the AMG units are the best in the world. But the idea of further increasing horsepower seems to be almost an affront. It suggests that those that can afford an AMG are basically of the same IQ level as the motorheads that drag raced GM and Ford muscle cars in 1/4 mile sprints in the 60's. Which, by the way, would still beat the newest E55, if 1/4 mile bragging rights are really that important.
 
I certainly wouldn't buy a 15,000 square foot MacMansion because it is "bigger" than my neighbors. Give me a 4,000 square foot Frank Lloyd Wright arts and crafts home that uses real stone and real wood. I hope some of the AMG engineers are old enough to remember the 300SEL 6.3 and hold themselves to a higher standard than simply jamming the most horsepower and torque humanly possible in a 4,000 lb sedan (or worse yet, a 4,300+ lb 2-seater).
 
Maybe if I lived at the Bonneville salt flats I would feel differently. But I actually drive my M5 the equivalent of 20,000 miles a year and some of those roads have curves.
 
Happy New Year to all.

#443 of 786 Getting off topic but talking about E55 vs. M5 by w210

Jan 02, 2003 (1:04 am)

I am a past E55 owner and was in the situation where I seriously considered the M5.
 
I find the E55 far more user friendly in the real world, as some of you have pointed out, my biggest complaint about the M5 or the 5 series is the lack of rear seat leg room. For me, it is an important issue as the reason why I needed a performance sedan was the 4-passenger space.
 
Sure, the E55 has a bigger trunk too, it can fit two of my large Hartmann suitcases while the M5 cannot. I also feel more confident taking long road trips in the E55 as it has the spare tire and the M5 doesn't.
 
I personally find the E55 more nimble with its lighter weight, I enjoy the M5's more precise steering but find the E55 much faster than the M5 for daily stop and go driving between office and home, phone calls, radio, etc. Yes the autobox has something to do with it too, just so user friendly, point and shoot with the massive torque.
 
For spirited driving up the mountains, one may find it hard to believe but I find the SL500 more enjoyable than the M5 or the E55. It's not unlike a video game with its flat cornering it has less body roll than the M5 and the E55 if you put the ABC in the sports mode. It's the heaviest car of the 3 but somehow, the active suspension makes it kind of fun perhaps I'll grow out of the novelty testing the ABC's limit.
 
I hope the new E55 will handle as well as the SL500.

Messages Page 45 of 80

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