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Vibe/ Matrix v. PT Cruiser v. ZX5 v. Protege5 v. Elantra GT v. Aerio SX - READ ONLY

167 messages,  Last post on Jun 26, 2003 at 12:37 PM

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What is this discussion about? Toyota Matrix, Mazda Protege5, Chrysler PT Cruiser, Ford Focus, Suzuki Aerio, Hyundai Elantra

Messages Page 8 of 17

#67 of 167 Return of 5 Doors by hardoo

Aug 17, 2002 (6:33 am)

These cars have attracted lots of interest in the past year or so, with big articles in both Car & Driver and Consumer Reports in the last few months. And I expect that in the coming year even more people will be drawn to 5-door hatchbacks, which offer some SUV functionality with a better driving experience, better gas mileage, and a better price than the trucks which have dominated the roads in the last decade. In the next year, I plan on purchasing one of these vehicles. The contenders:
 
1. Ford Focus ZX5 -- decent looking car that apparently handles very well, with the added bonus of an SVT 170 hp version in 2003. Unfortunately, the Focus has had a host of reliability problems, and I even saw a piece on TV last night about melting parts under the hood. As someone looking to buy and keep this vehicle for 8-10 years, I pass.
 
2. Hyundai Elantra GT -- great value and a great warranty for an improving product. However, I am not ready to be a Hyundai man, nor will I buy a Daewoo, a Kia, or a Suzuki.
 
3. Pontiac Vibe -- Toyota reliability with Pontiac styling equals GM's best small car. However, I can't see paying more for a Pontiac with less residual value and a lesser warranty.
 
4. Toyota Matrix -- the economy of a Corolla combined with a sportier stance and more useful cabin make for one intriguing vehicle. I really want to want this car, but as Car & Driver wrote, I "couldn't find love for it." Its looks, beyond eccentric, strike my tastes as odd. My head keeps telling me that I should like this car, but every time I look at it, my gut objects.
 
5. Chrysler PT Cruiser -- unique retro looks combined with cargo capacity and affordability make this vehicle a strong contender. This is the vehicle that I wish I didn't want, as my head tells me that it's risky to gamble on 8-10 years from a Chrylser product. And these concerns received some confirmation this week, as Chrysler recalled all 2001 and 2002 models for some fuel pump modifications. But despite every objection from my head, this vehicle is the one which most speaks to my gut. It is definitely one of my finalists.
 
6. Mazda Protege5 -- perhaps the best compromise vehicle in the bunch for what I'm seeking. While it may not be as distinctive as the Cruiser, it has a sporty look that I admire. And while it may not have the reputation of a Toyota, it is a well-constructed vehicle still made in Japan. Basically, it offers a driving experience recommended by Car & Driver as well as a reliability record recommended by Consumer Reports. And while it doesn't speak to my gut like the Cruiser, it is a car that I think I could grow to love.
 
Ultimately, the Matrix, Cruiser, and P5 look like my 3 finalists with the Matrix a distant third at this point. My final decision will probably come down to which dealership will provide me with the best value and which manufacturer is offering the best incentives when I'm ready to make a move. Thoughts?
 
Pat

#68 of 167 hardoo by graphicguy

Aug 17, 2002 (9:13 am)

Looks like you're shopping the "right way" (if there is such a thing). I'm a Cruiser owner, so you'll see some bias. Outside of the Hyundai, which which fell out of my comparisons early, for many of the same reasons you probably had. Plus, subjectively, the Hyundai, while giving their cars the good ole "college try" still feel a couple of generations behind the rest of those on your list (kind of like an early '90s Celica...which isn't a bad thing). I have to agree with Car and Driver. The Cruiser feels much more expensive than it really is. It's just a very high quality piece when compared to the others. Now, Chrysler just upped their warranty, which is "icing on the cake".
 
If "style" enters at all into the equation, that's subjective, but that's where the Cruiser shines. The Mazda is nice, too. I'm pretty ambivalent about the Vibe/Matrix twins, even driving standard and "hot" versions. Same with the Ford. I like the Focus, just wish I could have been more certain of them getting all the "kinks" out of it.

#69 of 167 Melting Pot Focus? by mroland

Aug 17, 2002 (12:13 pm)

Here goes the Focus flag waver again, but I have never heard of any Focus owner have something melt under the hood. I could give you a list of common problems that crop up on the website I visit and melting parts has never been one of them. I have no idea why the media continues to pick on the Focus. It is a great car, and a real surprise from Ford. Too bad they keep the well built ones in Europe where it has won quality awards, whereas here it is considered another lemon in Ford's history of Citrus fruits. (Pinto, Maverick, Tempo). At least this one fun to drive.
  Best of luck, I have 9K on my ZX5 with no major issues or RECALLS!!

#70 of 167 mroland by hardoo

Aug 18, 2002 (5:23 am)

Maybe the website that you frequent doesn't provide a representative sample of Focus owners. I pulled this report off of Car & Driver:
 
"NHTSA Upgraded Ford Focus Fire Probe
August 16, 2002
Page 1 of 1
 
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said on its Web site that it upgraded its investigation into reports of engine compartment fires in Ford Focus cars.
NHTSA opened the investigation in March after receiving seven complaints of engine compartment fires near the battery. NHTSA said it has since had two more complaints, and Ford reported 61 similar complaints and 286 warranty claims relating to fire, scorched parts or a burning odor."

#71 of 167 Elantra by elantradriver

Aug 18, 2002 (5:57 am)

For those of you who have dismissed the Elantra GT because of Hyundai's bad reputation from the early 90's I urge you to take a second look. Hyundai has come an incredibly long way in a very short time. The GT is definitely on par if not better than every other car being discussed here in this forum. My only grips about it is that the 140hp engine should be upgraded. If your going to call a car a GT it should have a larger, sportier engine than the base model. As well the back hatch lighting needs to be improved. In the dark it is sometimes hard to find things back there with such a small amount of light.

#72 of 167 Elantra = early 90's Celica? by bri70

Aug 18, 2002 (1:49 pm)

I have never driven a Celica. But my sister has an early 90's Camry. The Elantra is a much preferred car. The Camry is solid, but other than that the Elantra is superior in ride, materials and even engine (she has the 4 cylinder)is better.
 
I always use the comparison of the two to illustrate how far cars (even economy cars) have come in the 90's.
 
Yes, do call me a Hyundai man. If being a Hyundai man means a person who test drove the competition and found the Hyundai to be the best in price, features, with a very good ride and quality. That would be me
 
Y

#73 of 167 Things have changed a great deal since the early 90's... by csandste

Aug 18, 2002 (5:12 pm)

The Elantra is a significantly larger car inside than an early 90's Acura Lengend (the largest Acura). It seems quite a bit larger than the last generation (soon to be two generations ago) Accord. Although the Elantra isn't as good a handling car (at least in GLS form) as a Focus, it is significantly more powerful and quite a bit more comfortable. It's also more reliable.

#74 of 167 Focus Quality by biker16

Aug 19, 2002 (12:53 am)

Facts:

Focus #1 in owner loyalty even with the recalls, #1 for the past 2 years and leading half way thru this year.

Polk.com
Autonews.com
http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=40458
"Comparing the 2002 and 2001 models, the Focus improved 17 percent in problems per 100 vehicles after three months in service, according to the J.D. Power Initial Quality Study.

The Focus falls "just slightly below" the industry average of 133 problems per 100 vehicles, J.D. Power said."

improvements for the 2003 Focus

better interior materials, a 2Db decrease in road noise, Traction control, heated Seats and mirrors. and the new 2.3l PZEV Focus.

Fixing the Focus

What: Squeak, rattle complaints
Change: 42% reduction in complaints for 2002 model versus 2001 model
How: New tool more accurately gauges torque when installing nuts, bolts or fasteners
What: Wind and cabin noise
Change: 18% reduction in complaints 2002 vs. 2001 model
How: Thicker cabin carpet, more sound deadening under floorpan and engine firewall, new door handle seals, use of ultrasonic air leakage transmitter on every vehicle, new air leakage test

official Recall history.
Recalls

2000 model year
Recalls: 7
Units: 834,317
2001 model year
Recalls: 3
Units: 20,073
2002 model year
Recalls: 1
Units: 569

The BMW X5 has had 11 recalls Where are all the people complaining about it's quality?
 
The Focus is #1 in reliabilty in germany there is no reason it shouldn't be the same way here.

#75 of 167 by maltb

Aug 19, 2002 (8:04 am)

The Focus is #1 in reliabilty in germany there is no reason it shouldn't be the same way here.
 
You are right. Maybe building them in Mexico wasn't such a hot idea.

#76 of 167 maltb by seminole_kev

Aug 19, 2002 (9:38 am)

you think detroit union labor would be any better?
 
I'd be curious to see defect brake downs by the U.S. made Focuses versus the Mexican made ones.

Messages Page 8 of 17

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