Last post on Mar 11, 2013 at 2:33 PM
You are in the Chevy Venture
What is this discussion about?
Chevrolet Venture, Pontiac Montana, Oldsmobile Silhouette, Van
#687 of 1617 Loud Tapping Noises
Dec 06, 2003 (5:55 pm)
I found this though the google search. It is from http://cincinnatistreetracing.com/community/viewthread.php?tid=23- 55&page=1#pid160798 posted by "Toyota 4x4". Hope it is useful...Thanks!
COLD ENGINE TICK OR RATTLE AFTER AFTER START-UP #57-61-24A - (06/11/1998)
REVISION: 06/11/98 DIVS INVL 1 2 3 4 7
THIS BULLETIN IS BEING REVISED TO EXPAND THE MODEL YEAR COVERAGE, AND TO ADD THE U-VAN, THE 3400 V6 ENGINE APPLICATIONS AND PARTS INFORMATION. ALSO, THE CAUSE STATEMENT HAS BEEN CHANGED. PLEASE DISCARD CORPORATE SERVICE BULLETIN 57-61-24 (SECTION 6-ENGINE). _________________________________________________________________- _____
SUBJECT: COLD ENGINE TICK OR RATTLE AFTER START-UP (REPLACE PISTON/PIN ASSEMBLY)
MODELS: 1994-95 BUICK REGAL 1994-97 BUICK SKYLARK 1994-98 BUICK CENTURY 1994-95 CHEVROLET BERETTA, CORSICA, LUMINA, MONTE CARLO 1996-98 CHEVROLET VENTURE 1997-98 CHEVROLET MALIBU 1993-97 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS SUPREME 1994-96 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA 1994-97 OLDSMOBILE ACHIEVA 1997-98 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS 1996-98 OLDSMOBILE SILHOUETTE 1994-98 PONTIAC GRAND PRIX 1994-98 PONTIAC GRAND AM 1996-98 PONTIAC TRANS SPORT WITH 3100 OR 3400 V6 ENGINE (VINS M, E - RPOS L82, LA1)
SOME CUSTOMERS MAY COMMENT ON A TICKING TYPE NOISE THAT BEGINS SHORTLY AFTER COLD ENGINE START-UP AND GRADUALLY DIMINISHES AS THE ENGINE WARMS UP. IN MOST CASES, THE NOISE IS GONE AFTER FIVE (5) MINUTES. IN SEVERE CASES, THE NOISE MAY NOT DISAPPEAR WHEN THE ENGINE IS HOT.
UNDER NORMAL DESIGN TOLERANCES WHEN THE PISTON PIN BORE IS PRODUCED AT THE MAXIMUM TOLERANCE AND THE PISTON PIN IS PRODUCED AT THE MINIMUM TOLERANCE (MIN-MAX TOLERANCE) TRACE NOISE LEVELS CAN OCCUR. THIS LEVEL OF NOISE DOES NOT AFFECT THE RELIABILITY OR DURABILITY OF THE PRODUCT.
IF PISTON-TO-PIN NOISE IS DETECTED AND THE CUSTOMER DESIRES THE CONDITION TO BE CORRECTED, REPLACE ALL SIX PISTONS WITH PIN ASSEMBLIES. THE NEW PISTON SETS HAVE A MINIMAL PISTON-TO-PIN CLEARANCE. REMEMBER, PISTON-TO-PIN NOISE OCCURS IN BOTH PARK AND DRIVE AT ENGINE IDLE RPM AND IT VARIES IN INTENSITY DEPENDING ON THE NUMBER OF PISTONS INVOLVED. A TICKING SOUND MEANS ONE PISTON IS AFFECTED WHEREAS A RATTLE OR DIESEL TYPE SOUND INDICATES MORE THAN ONE PISTON AFFECTED. THE FOLLOWING SHOULD ALSO BE CHECKED:
1) ON W-CARS, MAKE SURE THE RIGHT SIDE ENGINE SPLASH SHIELD IS NOT CONTACTING THE ENGINE CRANKSHAFT BALANCER. THIS CONDITION USUALLY HAPPENS COLD AND IS CAUSED BY THE SHIELD CURLING WHEN COLD.
2) REFERENCE SERVICE BULLETIN 57-71-06 FOR TRANSMISSION RATTLE NOISE OFTEN CONFUSED FOR ENGINE RATTLE NOISE.
3) REFERENCE SERVICE BULLETIN 47-61-36 FOR ACCESSORY DRIVE BELT TENSIONER NOISE.
4) CHECK CYLINDER BORE DIAMETER AND PISTON DIAMETER AS OUTLINED IN THE SERVICE MANUAL.
IMPORTANT: EXCESSIVE CYLINDER BORE TO PISTON DIAMETER CLEARANCE CAN CAUSE A SIMILAR TYPE NOISE.
USE THE PROCEDURE IN THE APPROPRIATE SERVICE MANUAL FOR PISTON REPLACEMENT.
NOTICE: WHEN INSTALLING THE NEW PISTON AND PIN ASSEMBLY ONTO THE EXISTING RODS, USE EXTREME CARE TO AVOID DAMAGE TO EITHER THE PIN OR PISTON BORE. IF DAMAGE TO THESE AREAS OCCURS, THE NOISE WILL RETURN BECAUSE THE DAMAGE WILL CAUSE WEAR AND EXCESSIVE CLEARANCE.
DESCRIPTION P/N QTY APPLICATION ----------- --- --- -----------
PISTON WITH PIN ASSEMBLY 24505806 6 94-95 3100
PISTON WITH PIN ASSEMBLY 24508726 6 96-98 3100
PISTON WITH PIN ASSEMBLY 24508727 6 96-98 3400
PARTS ARE CURRENTLY AVAILABLE FROM GMSPO.
FOR VEHICLES REPAIRED UNDER WARRANTY, USE:
LABOR OPERATION LABOR OPERATION NUMBER DESCRIPTION TIME ---------------- ----------- ---------------
J1307 PISTON, ROD AND/OR RINGS USE PUBLISHED LABOR OPERATION TIME
FIGURES: 0 ATTACHMENTS: 0
GENERAL MOTORS BULLETINS ARE INTENDED FOR USE BY PROFESSIONAL TECHNICIANS, NOT A "DO-IT-YOURSELFER". THEY ARE WRITTEN TO INFORM THOSE TECHNICIANS OF CONDITIONS THAT MAY OCCUR ON SOME VEHICLES, OR TO PROVIDE INFORMATION THAT COULD ASSIST IN THE PROPER SERVICE OF A VEHICLE. PROPERLY TRAINED TECHNICIANS HAVE THE EQUIPMENT, TOOLS, SAFETY INSTRUCTIONS AND KNOW-HOW TO DO A JOB PROPERLY AND SAFELY. IF A CONDITION IS DESCRIBED, DO NOT ASSUME THAT THE BULLETIN APPLIES TO YOUR VEHICLE, OR THAT YOUR VEHICLE WILL HAVE THAT CONDITION. SEE A GENERAL MOTORS DEALER SERVICING YOUR BRAND OF GENERAL MOTORS VEHICLE FOR INFORMATION ON WHETHER YOUR VEHICLE MAY BENEFIT FROM THE INFORMATION.
#688 of 1617 RE: GM Reliability
Dec 06, 2003 (5:58 pm)
I currently own a ’91 Chevy Lumina APV with 138,000+ miles on the odo. Within the next 8-10 months I will probably purchase a new vehicle (I enjoy researching and test drives). Besides other GM vehicles, I have owned Fords, Chryslers, Mazdas, Subarus, and Hyundais. I have to admit that if I were to buy today, it probably would be a Mazda MPV (although they have had issues with a transmission hard shift between 2-3).
Since the reliability of GM vehicles is one of the topics discussed here, I thought I would share my experience with my APV.
I purchased the van in 10/91 from a Chevy dealer. I bought it through GM’s ‘Purchase Plan’ (GM sold it to a rental company then bought it from them and sold it at auction to one of their dealers). Total cost of the vehicle, including TTL, was $14,841.00. It had a little over 13,000 miles on it when I drove it home and the remainder of the 36mo/3yr. warranty. It had very few options (A/C, privacy glass, AM/FM cassette, roof rack, premium sound system). I firmly believe in KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid). The more options you have, the more problems you’ll have.
When the van had a little over 50,000 miles on the odo, it left my family (wife and 3 sons) and I stranded on the final leg of a vacation trip to Myrtle Beach. About 100 miles from our destination, the van started ‘bucking’, almost like it was going to stall. When we were about 3 blocks from our hotel, it died. A faulty ignition coil wire was the culprit. The cost to fix it was less than $300.00 (including towing). Even though that may sound reasonable, I felt it was a bit ‘salty’. I had a feeling that it was going to be ‘expensive’ when I walked into the Myrtle Beach Chevy dealership’s customer waiting room and saw GQ Magazine on the table. I have to admit that the dealership diagnosed the problem immediately and fixed it promptly (2-3 hours). BTW, the vacation was probably one of our best (after the fix, of course).
Rear Brake Cylinder 60,000+ miles
Alternator 99,000+ miles
Frt. Rotors Turned 99,000+ miles
Water Pump 109,000+miles
Replace Radiator 122,000+miles
Brake Hoses Various mileage (these were detected by my mechanic during various annual inspections)
Replace Headliner 138,000+miles
The total cost for all of the above fixes, including the ignition coil wire, was $1,100.00, +/- a few dollars.
Oil + Filter Every 3,000 miles (religiously with Gastrol 5W –30 and AC Delco filters)
Trans. Fluid Every 30,000 miles
Air Filter Every 30,000 miles
PCV Valve Every 30,000 miles
Cooling System Flush
and Refill Every 30,000 miles
As you can see, I’ve had ‘some’ problems, but nothing out of the ordinary (okay, it did leave us stranded in
Myrtle Beach, but it was only 3 blocks from the hotel and I forgave it for that years ago). If I could buy a new
vehicle today and be guaranteed the same reliability as my APV, I would buy it in a 'heartbeat’ (remember the old
Now some of you may be asking why am I in the market for a new vehicle. One word, cautious. As my van gets closer to 150,000 miles, I am becoming very cautious. My wife and I frequently take the van on 400+ mile trips throughout the year, and she is deathly afraid of being stranded ‘again’ (she’s not as forgiving as me). But as you can see from the documentation above, GM has done alright by me. In fact, I would have to say that my van of plastic has been ‘fantastic’! As a matter of fact, I believe all of the Big Three have made enormous strides in product reliability. And if and when I do have to say goodbye to the ‘magic bus’, I will definitely have a tear in my eye.
#689 of 1617 kolt 1's apv
Dec 07, 2003 (4:56 am)
that's good to hear!
fwiw, we regularly do some fairly long road trips, and over the years I've seen, other than the usual "junkers," quite a variety of cars sitting beside the highway--not remains of accidents, but cars that obviously have died & been abandoned (perhaps, occasionally people get pulled over & arrested, I guess, but safe to say usually an abandoned car is dead). Believe me, I've noted quite a variety of brands, sometimes quite new looking.
I was zooming down a mountain road in spring 2002 and a distressed looking lady was standing by her car with the hood up...since I knew cellphone service was really spotty here, I stopped--turned out her 02 Audi A-8 was dead as a doornail. Had only a couple thousand miles on it. Had a very odd burned smell (?)
Point is, anything can leave you stranded, even a new car that costs like, 50 Grand!
(O.T., No service on her or my cellphone so, I ended up giving this lady (immaculately dressed in about $2000 worth of clothes) a ride to town in my muddy pathfinder, after rearranging fishing gear, muddy mountain bike, assorted junk, and muddy dog! lol a bit of culture shock for her, I think--she was nice enough although furious about the audi.
#690 of 1617 Loud Tapping Noises by hhua1
Dec 07, 2003 (7:00 am)
"I will search for the TSB 57-61-24A mentioned by n7don. The question is, your seems to coming back in about 55K miles. Is it wise for us to wait another year or so before the warranty goes out and have the dealer fix it. Assuming there is no real harm but only the nuisance tapping noises"
I don't want to gloss over what I had to go through to get the pistons replaced. Even though the TSB clearly states "IF PISTON-TO-PIN NOISE IS DETECTED AND THE CUSTOMER DESIRES THE CONDITION TO BE CORRECTED, REPLACE ALL SIX PISTONS WITH PIN ASSEMBLIES", the local GM rep wouldn't approve letting the dealership replace the pistons per the TSB. I won't go into all the details of the pushups done but I finally called the Pontiac customer service number in the owners manual. Didn't get nasty but just told them I was ashamed for my neighbors to be around when I started the thing. I got approval to take go to another area dealership (note serviced by the same GM rep!!). When I got to the new dealership, the service manager knew I was coming and had all the details... and seemingly had the OK to make the decision whether to fix or not. He was well aware of the problem and they made the decision whether to fix or not based on level of cold start noise. Like you I was concerned about pulling the engine but I've had no problem with anything related to the engine repair. My vehicle is a 98 Montana. If yours is still under warranty you might get your 'oar in the water' to see what the response is. Does it affect long term durability?? I don't know. GM says no. The problem described in the TSB relates to the whole family of 60deg. V-6 engines,e.i. 3.1-3.4L and I haven't found there has been wide-spread failures traced to this condition. At 93K miles my engine's oil consumption is nil between 4000 mile oil changes. Not to fuel the great oil discussion on dyno vs syn. I've used Mobile 1 since the engine was rebuild.
#691 of 1617 ??Warner Brothers Edition??
Dec 07, 2003 (12:34 pm)
Just purchased a 2000 Venture WB Edition. How many headphones are supposed to come with the vehicle? Can you operate a video game using the system in the van? What about the seating arrangement? Van has 3 individual seats in the 2nd row and 2 in the third. Will floor mats designed to fit the standard Ventures work with this setup? Vehicle has no mats so I need to get a set. Thanks.
#692 of 1617 Loud Tapping Noises
Dec 07, 2003 (5:46 pm)
Thanks n7don, I will keep monitor the noise and will have the dealer takes a look at it again next time I have to bring the van in for any service...As far as I can tell, my van doesn't consume much oil either, I use 10w30 convetional oil, and change oil between 3000 to 4000 miles.
#694 of 1617 Odometer
Dec 09, 2003 (11:00 am)
I have noticed mine reads a bit less than 1% high.
As for the tire question, does the manual say you can put that smaller size tire on?
#696 of 1617 Paulie - Your odo is fine
Dec 11, 2003 (1:51 pm)
You stated your odo is less thatn 2% off with your tires at end of life. That 2% is the difference in your tires circumference from new to end of life (eol). The factory calibrates the odo with new tires.
For example lets say your tire diameter when new is 22.5 inches, and now at EOL your tread is 1/4 inch shorter than when new giving you a new diameter of 22 inches, (1/4 inch comes off all around so you count it twice when measuring diameter.) In this example the new tire would have a circumference of about 70.68 inches, whereas the used tire has a circumference of 69.12 inches. That make the new tires circumference 2.225% larger.
I have not heard of anyone putting larger tires on these vans, nor would I recommend it.