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#19822 of 21744 Re: Go fast in Texas! [roadburner]
by steve_ HOST
Sep 13, 2012 (9:16 pm)
Got to ride shotgun in a new 4x4 pickup up to the Slope with an oil worker friend to the water's edge years ago. Only made it as far as Atigun Pass in the Quest. Ran out of time that trip. Wouldn't have been able to get through the gates to the water if we'd taken the van all the way up. Some pretty country up that way. And if you break down, no one is going to be inconsiderate and not stop to try to help.
Courses like your kiddo took should be required as part of the licensing process. I'd even be willing for my tax dollars to subsidize them. Would save a ton of money in medical bills and damaged sheet metal.
#19823 of 21744 Re: Go fast in Texas! [steve_]
Sep 13, 2012 (9:36 pm)
I ended up driving Atigun Pass in what was humorously described as a 50 mph convoy. With teams boasting drivers with last names like Dallenbach and Unser do you think we stuck to 50 mph? That was a bit tense- what with the roads being dark, snow covered, and people driving like supercharged bats out of Hell...
#19824 of 21744 Re: Go fast in Texas! [roadburner]
by steve_ HOST
Sep 14, 2012 (5:08 am)
Only did it in the high summer. It's funny how dirt/gravel roads in the boonies sometimes will be smoother than most Interstates.
Raining in S. Michigan so we're blowing off the Canadian loop and heading for the Soo and home. Wimping out in my old age, not to mention my night vision has gotten lousy. Mid September weather is often dicey but at least snow won't be an issue. There is a little road to WhiteFish Point that looks like a nice detour though if the inconsiderate weather breaks.
#19825 of 21744 Re: Go fast in Texas! [steve_]
Sep 14, 2012 (6:09 am)
Twisted but paved. Beautiful scenery, but you won't have time to look. I'd suggest the above-linked Route 28 that runs in Smokeys south of Lake Fontana. Locals commented how many motorcycle riders die riding that road trying to have fun on the turns and twists.
For the brave folks loving natural beauty, you can enjoy rafting and kayaking on the Nanatahala River in the controlled outflow from a TVA dam. We just took the train ride from Bryson City along the river and Fontana Lake.
Rafting/kayaking once you get there...
#19826 of 21744 Re: Go fast in Texas! [imidazol97]
by steve_ HOST
Sep 14, 2012 (6:15 am)
Not a fan of NOC? Every time I drove there to paddle (twice), they didn't turn the water on.
#19827 of 21744 Re: Go fast in Texas! [backy]
Sep 14, 2012 (8:53 am)
Lots of people? Based on what we've been told, we know of only one person who tried to make a U-turn (against the sign) there.
That's not true. I said they probably nabbed a dozen people in an hour. Based on my 15 minute observation, seeing them nab a couple before me (already parked receiving their piece of paper garbage), and another after me, you can estimate the dozen in an hour from the fact they got 3 or 4 within 15 minutes, it's reasonable to assume many many people make the U-turn in question.
Maybe some drivers need to be more aware of their surroundings. You know, to see things like signs, two patrol cars sitting there...
The sign was in a spot that didn't need to be looked at or seen in order to drive safely. The important thing when making the U-turn (which had it's own left lane turn lane into a parking lot), is to look at oncoming traffic and make sure you don't cause any conflicts with oncoming traffic, or with any vehicles exiting the parking lot and turning right. There is really no need to be scanning more to the right side where the sign post was placed.
Furthermore, there were no patrol cars sitting at the intersection U-turn spot in question as I said. The were not on the roadway at all in fact. They were parked at about 200' back in the parking lot adjacent to a grassy median that is adjacent to a wide sidewalk that is adjacent to the other 3 lanes of roadway.
Also, even at that distance and away from the roadway in question (and I dont' believe there's any reason for a driver on the roadway to distinguish things in the parking lot not near the exit zones (such as what's going on at Best Buy while your driving???), there were no patrol cars in the parking lot either. I said they had two officers, and two motorcycles parked among other vehicles in a big parking lot. A bike is not a car.
If they wanted to be seen or noticed, why wouldn't they just camp out on the grassy center median by where the U-turn takes place and have a picnic?
As if only people who cause damage/injury should get tickets.
Nice red herring.
No need to make a ridiculous argument. The point is that a ticket shouldn't be issued unless the turn was unsafe in some manner, and posed a risk or hazard in some way. Just because you do something unsafely doesn't mean an accident will occur, it could just be a close call.
Your probably wondering how does one determine if something is unsafe? Well, the simple answer is that the action should result in some kind of impediment to traffic. Someone or something should be affected by the movement you made. Opposite side oncoming traffic being forced to use there brakes to avoid a near miss would be one. Failure to yield to a right of way to a right turner coming out of the adjacent parking lot would be another.
For speeding, whizzing by a bicyclist at 100 MPH from 1 foot away almost knocking them over would be another example of something unsafe.
A LLC causing another vehicle to turn on the brake lights in the left lane is yet another example.
#19828 of 21744 Re: Go fast in Texas! [steve_]
Sep 14, 2012 (8:54 am)
I'd even be willing for my tax dollars to subsidize them. Would save a ton of money in medical bills and damaged sheet metal.
A fine idea. I'm all for better driver training and do think it would save tons of money in many forms over the long haul.
However, are we going to bailout all the Auto Body shops across America? I'm sure the body shops across America would lose tremendous amounts of revenues. These are American small businesses, don't they deserve a bailout?
Also, if American cars really have improved to be the equal of imports, then I suppose tow truck drivers will need a bailout as well. Not only will they not have business from Dodge owners anymore, they will also lose business from towing wrecked cars due to that driver's training improvement.
#19829 of 21744 Re: Go fast in Texas! [roadburner]
Sep 14, 2012 (10:25 am)
He told me he'd rather drive his mom's 2004 X3 2.5 because "If I get something that's even a bit fast I'll get into trouble with it."
I'd say you have a keeper there! May I trade sons with you?!
#19830 of 21744 Re: Go fast in Texas! [andres3]
Sep 14, 2012 (10:27 am)
...seeing them nab a couple before me (already parked receiving their piece of paper garbage),...
So not only did you miss seeing the U-turn sign, you didn't see the two other cars pulled over receiving tickets? And that didn't give you some pause? What WERE you doing while driving that day?
The sign was in a spot that didn't need to be looked at or seen in order to drive safely.
Since you didn't see an important sign, it appears you were not driving safely. Safe drivers observe their surroundings, including signs like "no U-turn".
The important thing when making the U-turn (which had it's own left lane turn lane into a parking lot), is to look at oncoming traffic and make sure you don't cause any conflicts with oncoming traffic, or with any vehicles exiting the parking lot and turning right. There is really no need to be scanning more to the right side where the sign post was placed.
Another important thing before making a U-turn is looking to see if the intersection has been posted as "no U-turn". An experienced driver like you should know that those are pretty common, so you can't assume that every intersection allows U-turns. Just like it's important before making a right turn on red to look for a "no right turn on red" sign.
The point is that a ticket shouldn't be issued unless the turn was unsafe in some manner, and posed a risk or hazard in some way. Just because you do something unsafely doesn't mean an accident will occur, it could just be a close call.
In other words... it's OK to break a traffic law if you do the unlawful act in a safe manner? So for example, if you decide you want to drive the wrong way down a road, but you're lucky that day and you don't hit anyone or cause other vehicles to take evasive action to avoid an accident, then if an officer observes you driving the wrong way down the road, they should let you be because "no harm, no foul"?
Looks like there's no room in your mind for the concept of, "This driver ignores posted signs; that's an unsafe driving practice in general so we are going to stop him for that."
#19831 of 21744 Re: Go fast in Texas! [andres3]
Sep 14, 2012 (10:30 am)
I think we are already subsidizing the body shop industry through low licensing standards and non-enforcement of certain distracted driving issues. Seriously.
We subsidize ungrateful nations, some of which arguably shouldn't exist. Why not industries that at least exist on our soil.