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Volkswagen Phaeton

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#51 of 1677 by machiavelli Mar 05, 2002 (8:17 am)
True, but I think the person that can just barely afford the $70K car and is scraping together every last penny to make a $1000 a month lease payment, would want something with a "prestige" name like Mercedes, Lexus, BMW....   The person like a Bill Gates that can easily afford a $100K car will basically buy whatever they want.
#52 of 1677 For a closer look... by vwguild Mar 05, 2002 (8:28 am)
go to www.vwvortex.com for a press release from the Geneva Auto Show...
#53 of 1677 VW's Image by merckx Mar 05, 2002 (9:07 am)
About two years ago,I started reading in the English auto press that VW intended to take on Mercedes.At the time,I was utterly incredulous. But I bought a 2001 Passat GLS last year. I have been delighted to find it one of those rare consumer items that seems to be worth far more than what I paid for it. The only other car I seriously considered was a BMW 525i;I had to go that high up to find a Passat alternative. So in that sense VW has a lot of room to add considerable quality to a Passat-level car. It is my understanding that Audi,like BMW,will pursue the overtly sporting driver. Whereas VW and Mercedes go a little in the Lexus direction. And as VW aparently is also about to market an Accura NSX-type "supercar",the market will be forced to reevaluate its perception of VW. VW is definately on an upward swing,and I think VW will be sucessful. When Lexus started with the $35,000 LS 400 in 1990,some could only think"a $35,000 Corolla? No way". They did undervalue the LS at first,actually,but soon raised prices when the public realized what the car was. And I think this new VW could go the same way.
#54 of 1677 VW should still open a second channel!! by toyotas1 Mar 05, 2002 (11:15 am)
I still don't agree with selling $70k cars next to $13k cars!! ESPECIALLY, if they plan to bring other high-priced machines up in here! But this car is a "Ride!".....
#55 of 1677 by machiavelli Mar 05, 2002 (1:34 pm)
Yeah, I agree. I've said that all along in this thread. I'm not knocking the car itself - it seems like it will be very nice, especially in the W12 version. But, I think it made more sense for VW to badge it as an Audi or another "upscale" channel. Just as Toyota doesn't sell a $50+K LS430 in the same showroom as a $15K Echo, or Nissan doesn't sell the Q45 along side Sentras and Frontier pickups, etc...
#56 of 1677 machiavelli by merc1 Mar 05, 2002 (3:22 pm)
That's true about that type of person in your post #51. They aren't going to go through all that trouble for a V-dub.   This fay-ton looks too be a winner on paper, it's up the VW's U.S. operation to make the car feasable for U.S. buyers. Price, service and standing behind the product is critical. I think this can work if done right. VW can't afford to open another channel though, that surely wouldn't make it. The big question is, why would anyone buy the next A8 when you can get the fewtan (basically the same car) for thousands less. This car is going to hurt Audi first and foremost, possibly Mercedes and BMW for a hot minute. Out of the 10K units planned for the U.S. I see 5000 of those buyers coming directly from Audi, and the rest from MB/Lexus/BMW.   M
#57 of 1677 by magnetophone Mar 05, 2002 (4:52 pm)
merc1, well the A8 never really sold more than 5,000, so that means Audi owners are moving up in the ranks. More profit for VW.. sounds like maybe some inner competition isn't a terrible thing after all.   I think VW thinks they're in a secure enough position to do this kind of market strategy. It's very much like GM pre-1990, although less blatant. I don't think that the Phaeton will take competition away from Audi as a whole. But if it took away A4 sales as opposed to A8 sales, then you know it's not working.
#58 of 1677 Phaeton support... by vwguild Mar 05, 2002 (5:30 pm)
will be from "Phaeton Service Specialist Dealerships"...What message does that project??
#59 of 1677 This is gettig weird..... by toyotas1 Mar 05, 2002 (7:31 pm)
Now I'm confused as to who VW is targeting. At $48k, a V6 Phaeton can't run with a GS430 or V8 S-type. And the $90k V12 will only get 2-3k buyers a year if they're lucky. I guess the V-10 TDI pricing will be the key to the whole ball of wax..... and will people want a $70k diesel......
#60 of 1677 This is getting weird..... by toyotas1 Mar 05, 2002 (7:32 pm)
Now I'm confused as to who VW is targeting. At $48k, a V6 Phaeton can't run with a GS430 or V8 S-type. And the $90k V12 will only get 2-3k buyers a year if they're lucky. I guess the V-10 TDI pricing will be the key to the whole ball of wax..... and will people want a $70k diesel......I'd still price the V12 BETWEEN THE 7 AND S-CLASS (if that's possible), or right on top of the S430.....

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