Last post on Jul 06, 2012 at 5:27 PM
You are in the Honda Element
What is this discussion about?
Honda Element, Hatchback, SUV
Aug 27, 2002 (1:14 pm)
I agree with Mario, in that they were thinking ahead, and that if the Element sells well they'll have the 2004 Element SUT at dealers in a year. A Crew Cab basically, which would be extremely easy to do given the small doors already in place.
Honda knows what they're doing. They cannot please every single consumer. I think the idea here was to create a niche vehicle to please a separate group of consumers that have not even considered the CR-V. A new niche.
Aug 27, 2002 (2:45 pm)
I don't frequent this board, but I was driving in Los Angeles,(405S, near Honda's HQ) and I saw one of these on the freeway on the back of a truck. Thought some of you might like to see it.
#742 of 4724 Weight, Power and dimensions
Aug 27, 2002 (3:25 pm)
If Edmund's numbers on BMW 3.0 X5 are correct, that vehicle weighs 4800+ lb with 225 HP, or about the same weight to power ratio as the heaviest Element (which is not too far from my 1998 Accord EX sedan either, at about 21-21.5 lb. per HP). At 3600 lb. Element would still be 500 lb. lighter than Liberty.
Dimensions are supposedly very different from CRV. Shorter, but wider and taller, and 16" rims.
Aug 27, 2002 (3:25 pm)
"The Element is intentionally different."-varmit
I know that. My point is that the intentional difference is at the price of performance. I don't expect this thing to be able to do 0-60 in less than 10 seconds. I may not be in the gen Y - but those people that atexeira mentioned, the ones with the nose rings and the tattoos, probably don't have a job, are too stoned to think and probably have revoked drivers' licenses. Contrary to what people think, the Y gen and people like me prefer a car with at least some performance. This car is a slouch, and it's because of the suicide doors. Honda could've given it conventional doors, and the car would still look cool.
I was hoping that the rumored weight problem could be avoided, but I guess not.
Aug 27, 2002 (3:49 pm)
This would've saved weight and the car still would've looked radical. But I don't run Honda, so they'll do what they want despite my ramblings.
Aug 27, 2002 (5:58 pm)
Thanks for sharing! I think it looks cool!
Aug 27, 2002 (6:09 pm)
Why not just put the 200 hp Accord V6 engine in? Forget about the CRV customers/line. They don't care. If they want more power they get a Pilot. Just explain to them the Element is heavy and needs more power. Honda has no SUV hp power between 160 and 240. Thats a big gap. Would you pay say 23K$ for a V6 Element??
Or being low volume product encourage/pay Vortek or Jackson Racing to make a Supercharger for Honda Performance.
tdp05->BLACK bumpers there's hope!
#747 of 4724 Robertsmx is correct
Aug 27, 2002 (6:20 pm)
Interesting! Comparing power to weight with 3.0 BMW X5
For X5 and Element, I calculated curb weight divided by HP and curb weight divided by torque then averaged the two.
This is what I got:
2002 BMW X5 3.0 automatic trans- 4824 lbs 225hp 214 torque
5spd 2WD Element 3352 lbs 160hp/162Torque
5spd AWD Element 3544 lbs 160/162
Auto AWD Element 3595 lbs 160/162
So using these weights and averaging lbs/hp and lbs/foot-pound of torque as noted above I got the following figures:
BMW X5---------------21.99 lbs per hp/torque
5spd 2WD Element-----20.82 lbs per hp/torque
5spd AWD Element-----22.01 lbs per hp/torque
Auto AWD Element-----22.32 lbs per hp/torque
So Robertsmx is right!
The Element should be close to the X5 in acceleration etc..
The stick 2WD should even smoke the BMW!
According to Edmunds the 2002 X5 3.0 auto makes it to 60 in 8.5 secs and hits the quarter in 16.4 84.3 MPH
I could certainly live with performance like that or close to that from an Element.
Perhaps it won't be so slow after all.
Aug 27, 2002 (6:31 pm)
I've heard the bulk of the weight has been added in reinforcing the structure of the floor
they strengthened the attachment points and made the floor stronger to disperse the damage in a crash particularly the suicide doors to get the 5 star crash rating so they didn't have to kill the whole project (at least in their own eyes)
I agree with diploid standard doors would make this vehicle a much better value
if the original suicide doors off of the model x could have worked it might be sweet because those were pretty big
now its like the rx8 or the Saturn ion with suicide doors just for the sake of them
I think they would be better than say a 2 door element but look at the pics the seats in the rear are way further back on entrance and egress than on the MoDel-X (MD-X I wondered why they changed the name now it makes sense)
something that has been giving me worries on the suicide doors, is a downpour, first you have to open the front then open the back then reverse to shut the opening, sounds like a lot of time to put those waterproof seats to good use (oopse if you happen to buy a dx)
I've also been thinking about space between the doors and other cars the front doors are larger than normal doors like on a coupe so you might not be able to open them so wide, like all the honda pics if in a tight parking space
I personally think sliding doors on both the front and the back like on a mini van would rule no more door dings unless some jerk dings you but thats my opinion (keep the b pillar, what could possibly be loaded through the suicide doors that couldn't go in the tailgate?)