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Honda Element

4702 messages,  Last post on Nov 06, 2009 at 8:14 AM

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What is this discussion about? Honda Element, Hatchback, SUV

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#2571 of 4702 Hitch by robr2 Aug 20, 2003 (7:41 am)
Perhaps it's $500 installed?? Or perhaps that includes the wiring harness which is $168 list?? That would bring total list to $463. Also take a look at the installation instructions at the earlier link. The hitch is fairly straightforward - the harness is not. First 2 pages are Honda legalese. 3-9 is for the harness including removal and reinstall of bumper and many interior bits. 10-13 are for the hitch - with the bumper on.   I thought the CRV hitch was a joke to install!!
#2572 of 4702 On a positive note... by robr2 Aug 20, 2003 (7:44 am)
...I can't believe how many Elements I'm seeing around Boston driven by all sorts of folks - most skewing older. I saw a silver one this AM - with a nice mesh grill on it.
#2573 of 4702 4WD vs. 2WD vs AWD by micweb Aug 20, 2003 (8:02 am)
I believe Honda has "on demand" 4WD - the rear wheels will only activate if the front wheels are slipping. In other words, if you are bogged down. Which isn't usually the case on typical snowy roads.   Subaru uses "all wheel drive" where a portion of the power is always sent to the back wheels - this helps much more on curves and snowy roads.   The main advantage to 4WD of the Honda variety in California, is that it will save you having to put on chains when the "chains required" signs are up in the mountains. Even though in those conditions the 4WD really doesn't help. (In the midwest and eastern USA, people get by without 4WD or chains all the time.)   I have been told that "traction control" systems that prevent wheel spin and slides by selectively activating the ABS system on a wheel by wheel basis are almost as good as AWD in keeping you out of trouble on snow and ice; and also that snow tires on FWD cars are better than regular tires and 4WD or AWD.   So there are a lot of ways of approaching the 4WD issue. (Of course 4WD is essential for off-road use, but the Element is not really an off-road car, with or without 4WD.)   The Elements 4W is totally useless on wet roads - it simply doesn't activate in a timely fashion. The Subaru AWD, VW 4 Motion, and Audi Quattro systems are designed for wet roads. They use all four wheels, all the time.
#2574 of 4702 by ateixeira Aug 20, 2003 (8:23 am)
$463 is outrageous. Sounds like the install isn't that straight forward, either (it was for my Subie, fortunately).   Do you have a Trick Trucks or a U-Haul near you? Those types of places do it. Even Pep Boys does.   -juice
#2575 of 4702 by varmint Aug 20, 2003 (9:47 am)
Micweb - Ummm... yes and no.   RT4WD is a reactive design. That's true. However, it is much faster and more effective than you seem to expect. The rear wheels will kick in after the front tires spin about one quarter of a turn.   The main advantage is that it allows the vehicle to remain in FWD mode when power to the rear is superfluous. The drivetrain is more efficient this way, which promotes good fuel economy and acceleration.   Traction control systems will help you accelerate in slippery conditions by preventing power from "leaking" out one side of the differential. They don't do all that much for cornering and handling. (They don't do anything unless you have your foot on the gas.) You need a stability control system that manages all four wheels to balance a car in a slippery turn.   I agree that proactive or full-time AWD is the best in terms of absolute power distribution. But your paper assessment of reactive systems is considerably weaker than experience has shown.
#2576 of 4702 by ateixeira Aug 20, 2003 (10:06 am)
The catch with traction control is it retards momentum. Some times you actually want a little wheel slip.   My friend leased a ML320 and actually turns it off in the snow, he thought it was a nuisance.   Also, a FWD vehicle going up a steep hill is a recipe for disaster. All the weight transfers to the rear axle. The fronts have no traction and aren't likely to get it even with traction control.   Consumer Reports' test a couple of months back had AWD better than even snow tires on FWD, IIRC. The advantage was slight, but imagine both with the same tires.   -juice
#2577 of 4702 Mesh Grill by bigkahunafl Aug 20, 2003 (11:02 am)
Have you ever seen another E with the mesh grill? Is that a standard E accessorie?
#2578 of 4702 xweb by mtngal Aug 20, 2003 (7:32 pm)
Where in Germany are you? I think it would depend on where you are. Years ago I lived in Mannheim and Karlesruhe and had a (then) boyfriend (now husband) in Lahr. I often drove to Heidelberg and Kaiserslautern. When I first went over there I had a 3/4 ton Dodge van, then sold it and bought a mustang (tons of fun!). I never felt a need for 4x4 on those roads (though I did drive carefully when it was icy).   I do agree that the main benefit of an AWD Element for me is to go around the chains required checkpoints. I currently use a Wrangler to do that, but have discovered that its system doesn't help much on icy roads.
#2579 of 4702 mtngal -- I live in Wiesbaden! by xweb Aug 20, 2003 (11:26 pm)
So I don't expect to be driving through snow as often as on wet roads and/or icy roads. But I do have a somewhat steep road to climb to get to my house, lined with cars on both sides--I don't want to slide into anyone in my new Element!   Of course, over here, the roads are cleaned pretty quickly, and the car I have right now, a 15-year-old Opel Kadett hatch (FWD), has not given me any trouble, although I am very careful to drive slower when it's wet or icy or snowy.   micweb, varmint, ateixeira--thanks for the material to think about! It does sound like the AWD system would be somewhat helpful, but perhaps I could make do with snow tires. Of course, then I'd be spending as much for a second set of winter wheels and tires as the AWD costs anyway!   I used to live in Montana, had a 1984 Toyota Tercel wagon with 4WD I engaged with a lever. It did help, but I still managed to slide into a curb when I took a turn too fast (driving on packed snow). Then I had a 1991 Nissan Sentra 4WD (full-time) which was great in winter driving but otherwise a lemon. I liked having the flexibility of 4WD, and it came in handy a few times when parked on muddy logging roads.   Plus the weight penalty of AWD for performance--it doesn't appear to affect the gas mileage much, but the extra couple hundred pounds must have some impact on performance. Anyone driven both versions?   I'd absolutely love to test drive an Element, but unfortunately there's only one military-related dealer, and they have none in stock--whenever they get one in, it gets sold immediately!   I guess I'm leaning towards 4WD now, even though I can't get it with a stick through this dealer.   Anyone ever ship a car overseas? Maybe I can buy one in the States and have it shipped over if it's not too expensive.   You all are lucky to have all those Honda dealerships to test drive at! Maybe I need to make a special trip just to go test driving.   Of course, then the 2004s will come out and I'll be confused again. Thanks everyone, you all make this one of the best forums I've seen.--x
#2580 of 4702 by bowke28 Aug 21, 2003 (5:15 am)
i think winter tires can do more for you than all wheel drive can. it doesnt matter what wheels have traction if your tires dont have grip.

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