Last post on Sep 02, 2012 at 1:44 PM
You are in the Volkswagen Golf
What is this discussion about?
Volkswagen New Beetle, Volkswagen Golf, Volkswagen Jetta, Volkswagen Passat, Diesel, Hatchback, Sedan, Wagon
Aug 26, 2003 (6:42 am)
Best of luck in YOUR new Toyota Prius. I have been buying Toyota's for a while,and while I was recently at the dealer for a smog check on a Toyota Landcruiser, I had a chance to check out a Prius. True the gas mileage is GREAT 45/52 mpg, I was not impressed at all.
While the Zero-60 benchmark has been around for a long long time, it almost is just another among many of factors. The TDI has a Zero to 60 of (I am guessing) 10-12 seconds? Edmunds lists the Prius as 12.8. One of my TDI Jetta's stable mates is a 4 second zero to 60 Z06 and I got to tell you I have no problem merging into ANY kind of traffic with either. As a matter of fact I don't even KNOW the zero to 60 for the Toyota Landcruisers!!?? So in fact I can add that I have no problem in merging into traffic with ANY of them. If the Prius meets YOUR needs in comparison to the TDI models by all means: GO FOR IT. Again according to Edmunds.com, this is a $20k car. I got my TDI for way under that.
Since unscheduled maintenance was a concern for me in the VW JETTA I got into one of many VW anonymous groups. They have been very helpful in dealing with my addiction . But I tell you I would be downright apprehensive with a Prius. While they have been selling in Japan since 1997, the fact of the matter that batteries conceptually were NEVER designed to motivate a car or more correctly do not do it effectively and the batteries DO NOT last at all (you are in luck if the batteries last 5 years). I also have driven all electric vehicles in the service and also have towed critical national assets with them, so I do have some special purpose vehicle hands on.
All of us TDI'ers bemoan the lack of GOOD diesel mechanics. So would you say there are more or LESS hybrid mechanics?
My take on my mileage is currently we get between 45-50. Part of the reason is that this car seems love being run! XXX digit highway cruising is second nature and in fact the car was designed with the autobahn in mind. (.205 injectors, AW AW AW)
#773 of 2551 I second that!
Aug 26, 2003 (6:52 am)
Why all the "fuss" abour 0-60 time? I cant think of the last time I went 0-60 at full throttle.
Under REAL driving conditions, the TDI has plenty of torque to accellerate to pass beyond that of any same-displacement gasoline engine. (40-60 time)
What about quality interier design, fit -n- finish, handling, braking, ride quality, interiour noise levels, seating position...etc (I could go on for awhile)
Did you know that many automobile manufactures PURPOSLY tewak the engine-tranny to look good on paper? (ie ... 0-60 times) This has little bearing on REAL driving conditions. There was an interesting 'study' about this.
Personally, I spend much more time DRIVING my vehicles than I do with FULL-THROTTLE BURSTS from 0-60MPH. I look for a comftable,quiet ride that gets good MPG during NORMAL driving conditions. (I average about 52MPG)
Besides... those HYBRID vehicles are hard on the envrionment. The battery-packs are HAZZARDUS WASTE and very expensive to replace every few years.
AS FOR TURBO-LAG... Why do you suggest that VW has "trouble" with it. This is not "trouble" by any stretch of the imagination. It is just the nature of a turbocharger... PERIOD. (Just like lightbulbs make HEAT, lawnmowers make NOISE and it hurts when you hit your thumb with a hammer... it is the nature of the beast)
There are allready several TDI/electric vehicles available.... just not in NorthAmerica.
Aug 26, 2003 (11:19 am)
Thought I'd add that I have a 4X4 Chevy Tahoe that by all magazine reviews I've seen will click off 0-60 in around 8 seconds. That would have to be the only possible way it's quicker than my TDI. I drive both on a regular basis and the Tahoe is not fast, even disregarding the obvious handling difference between the two. Anywhere, anytime, the TDI feels quicker. In fact, when it comes to driving hilly roads, the TDI feels more powerful than my Audi A6 V8. The TDI will eat hills for lunch, where I'm guessing the hybid motors are going to be taxing the batteries quickly and relying on a small gas engine much more. Keep us posted.
#775 of 2551 more on 0-60
Aug 26, 2003 (6:08 pm)
The facts for the Prius as stated above are for the 2003. I guess you guys did not read Edmunds front page today! The 2004 Prius is 55/55 mpg with auto while near zero emissions! Amazing!!
I too have a Chevy 4x4 and I completely disagree. The truck amazes me, even pulling 5000 lbs. Throttle response is beyond there. Now I test drive a TDI, hit the gas...nothing happens....when the car is finally pulling...it is time to shift! VW states 0-60 in 12.5 sec with manual, 14.9 sec with auto (yikes). The 2004 Prius is 10 sec flat with auto. Thatís a big difference while getting better mpg. I want good acceleration while getting good mpg and a fun to drive car. I think the 2005 Golf with TDI/manual will be just that.
Now imagine the TDI having the 295 ft/lbs of torque the Prius has. I think that would overcome the turbo lag and make on heck of a fun to drive car and get even better mpg.
For the record, I have been driving my friends Audi A4 1.8T with automatic Quattro. I also HATE that car. You can floor the car at a light and let up on the gas and no one in the car would even know you stepped on the gas. Try that in a Chevy.
Aug 27, 2003 (4:59 am)
I think the problem is you're flooring it. If every car was as simple to drive as put your foot to the floor, that would be real fun. You have to know how to drive a diesel, and red-lining it does nothing for performance. I don't have the space to teach you how to drive one, but mine is much quicker than my '02 5.3L 4X4 Tahoe, with the possible exception of flat-out 0-60. The Tahoe is slow unless you peg the throttle right from the get-go. Highway acceleration is phenominal on the TDI. I accelerated from 60mph-90mph half-way up a mountain in WV yesterday to get around a truck. The Tahoe would have still be putzing behind that truck for miles because there is no way it would have pulled that off. But hey, it'll get to 60 in 8 seconds if you want. In summary, if you don't like driving buy the Prius. VW's are fun to drive and with a TDI can be both fun and very economical.
Aug 27, 2003 (6:33 am)
According to VW, the TDI doesn't have any problems a V-10 TDI with 300 hp and 550 # ft of torque will not address. Problem? It can not be imported to the good ole US of A! Seems the import authorities always put the "kaibosch" on the real hot stuff!
Aug 27, 2003 (6:45 am)
I don't agree with you and I am sure I have more experience with diesels than you think. I grew up on a farm and have been driving them in one form or another since I was 5. Your post is contradictory. It is a fact that your Tahoe is MUCH quicker 0 to 60, by at least 4 secs! That is a lot. I would expect your Tahoe pulling about 5000 lbs would have a 0 to 60 time equal to your VW. Maybe your Tahoe is not running correctly. The Tahoe would have pulled that hill climb quicker too, but it would have had to downshift. It will climb most any hill at its 98 mph governed limit with no problem in third gear. I have a gtech meter and time every car or truck I get my hands on. The last one I timed was a Dodge Cummins with a Banks stage 3 kit with a manual trans. 0 to 60 was 10.3 sec. It does seem quick with all the drama, but it is not. However, I do agree that it will pull a hill amazingly in high gear, even with a load.
So, I think what you are trying to say is the VW feels quicker. There can be many reasons for that from the VW being lower to the ground, engine noise, vibration, and the feeling from the hill being pulled without downshifting. But, if you take your stopwatch with you I think you will be surprised.
For one thing I don't like the looks of the Prius. I can appreciate great engineering when I see it and Toyota has done it again. They are light-years ahead of most other car manufactures. I still say that TDI/electric would be a great combination.
Aug 27, 2003 (7:29 am)
If I read your above post correctly, you will not be buying a Prius any time soon, or another car for that matter especially since you think a TDI electric would be a good combination. More importantly, the TDI/electric is not on the market.
Aug 27, 2003 (8:15 am)
I didn't say anything about the Tahoe not being able to pull the hill at 98mph, I said it couldn't accelerate as fast in my passing situation. Acceleration at those speeds is not impressive, which is where a TDI takes off quite nicely. By the time the Tahoe decides to downsift and build some rpms, I'd be half-way around the person in my TDI. I have a couple highway on-ramps I use regularly. If I peg the Tahoe at the bottom of the ramp it does fine, but if I'm accelerating normally and half-way up realize I need more steam to merge with some high-speed traffic, I'm a dead duck. I've never been unable to merge with the TDI. BTW, the TDI will run up hills in top-gear well in excess of 98mph, which is way too fast for a Tahoe anyway.
I also did not say the Tahoe was slower 0-60, I agreed that it was faster. In many other circumstances though, it is not. I do have about 25% more power than a stock TDI. I've never actually measured the 0-60, partly because it's not a standard that tells me much. I've driven many cars that have low 0-60's that don't feel all that fast in day to day driving. I don't call constant red-lining the engine day-to-day driving. I'll give you another example. My daughter has an '02 Celica GTS (borderline lemon at this point, but that's another story). That car CAN get to 60mph somewhat quickly, but good lord do you have to work for that power. Driving around on typical country roads is a chore and six speeds is hardly enough. Around town, don't even think about dropping below 3 grand or you'll be behind the pack. I just don't personally like driving like that. And talk about a lame duck on the hills, turn the A/C on and it feels like any cheap economy car. Requires premium fuel and very lucky if you get 30mpg on the highway. She's been driving my TDI on all the trips to the dealership to try and fix her car and she's determined to weasel it off of me. I'll probably trade her car in on a Passat TDI when/if they make it here.
I've got a Cummins Ram we use exculsively for towing. I've driven it some empty and it doesn't feel fast to me, even with the HO six-speed and 305hp. I've seen them do 13's at the track though so I'm sure there's potential. As long as it pulls our 16,000# trailer down the highway at 70mph, I'm happy.
Aug 27, 2003 (10:29 am)
You need HP to get good 0-60 or qtr mile times. The TDI does not have much HP only 90 stock. It's the torque this engine generates that make it a gem. I used to have an 01 Jetta TDI and just loved it. I sold it because my wife got a company car and we have a boat to tow, so the TDI was a 3rd car I didn't need (resale was great, I sold if for 3K less than I paid after a year and 35K miles). We drove the tdi to florida with family aboard (2 adults & 2kids plus luggage for a week), the car easily pulled steep grades it top gear at 75mph and avg 48mpg. I'd bet the acceleration times don't change much with a full load, that can't be said of any gas 4cylinder cars. As others have mentioned you have to learn how to drive a diesel, once you figure out how to utilize the torque band I found it to be very satisfying. I'd buy another in a heartbeat. I just wish I could get a midsize SUV with a diesel.