Last post on Nov 27, 2012 at 6:15 PM
You are in the Infiniti FX35 FX45 FX50
What is this discussion about?
Infiniti FX45, Infiniti FX35, Hatchback, Wagon, SUV
#1055 of 3411 FX 35 First year Depreciation - What is the bottom line?
Aug 13, 2003 (12:00 pm)
Per the TCO values, the first year depreciation for the FX35 is given as $10, 041 for zip code 08854. The values presented are based on a TMV of $650 under MSRP. This is aproximately $3,275 over invoice. I have tried to analyze the first year depriciation values of the FX, MDX, RX and the Murano and presented WHAT I THINK IS THE TRUE BOTTOM LINE here. Your thoughts are welcome.
Based on the posts from around the same zip code (NJ-08854), it is being assumed that we should get one for roughly $350 over invoice. This brings down the depreciation to (10,041-2900) = $7,141.
Values presented below are based on an Average of 15K miles per annum $0.15 / mile (I am trying to throw some intelligent numbers here - 15 cents a mile is what I believe they adjust excess miles during leases etc… As always, I welcome your thoughts here…). That adds up to $2,250 per year in terms of "Cost of owning an automobile". These will be the fixed $$$ spent anyways, on any car, if a person wants to own one. The only way one could avoid these costs can be if (A) Buy a car and garage it straight away and clock zero miles per year or better still (B) Don't buy one ;0) Make sense? Once again, I make these 15 cents a generic figure whether it's an economy car or a Luxury car. So, if you apply that against the depreciation then, (7,141 - 2,250) = 4,891.
This is what I consider cost of owning an Infiniti over any other model - That is my true depreciation. Are you lost yet? If so, DO NOT bother to read on ;0)
If I applied the same logic to other vehicles, Here's the numbers I came up with:
Acura MDX - Based on the reported $2000 off MSRP on the forums Vs. Edmunds TMV Sticker, the true cost to own a 2003 Acura MDX (base - which in itself has most of the goodies) over any other vehicle comes to $1,200 per year.
Lexus RX330: I let my optimism run amok here. Based on the best ever reported deal in the entire forum (Plano, Tx) Vs. Edmunds TMV of $350 below sticker, the true cost to own a 2004 RX-330 (AWD with premium plus, headlamp washers) over any other vehicle comes to $3,118 per year.
Nissan Murano - Based on deals reported $500 over invoice Vs. Edmunds TMV $1200 over invoice, the true cost to own a 2003 Nissan Murano SL AWD (Leather, Moon roof and Dynamic control Package) over any other vehicle is $4,717.
The common assumptions in all the scenarios is is that:
1) You walk away with the slowest selling color / options list (or lack thereof) in the lot and make the dealer's day- That works for me, as long as it is one of the four vehicles above ;0)
2) I may be off by a few hundred dollars, depending on your specific zip code.
3) I suggest you only take the guidelines above and crunch your own numbers from the scratch for your vehicle / trim - I am considered weak in Math by those who really know the subject ;0)
Aug 13, 2003 (12:27 pm)
What exactly are "TCO" values, and where does one find such values? Many Thanks.
Aug 13, 2003 (12:35 pm)
Ok I like your train of thought above. However I think you need to deal from MSRP and not TMV. I "think" edmunds bases it's depreciation from MSRP not TMV. Also I would tend to base my calculations on real world depreciation splitting the difference between the "books" avg trade and private party values or take retail and subtract 2-3000 from it. I will do an evaluation of the RX300 and MDX based on this method. I don't think you can do it for the FX and Murano yet simply because there is no comparable older model. It would be like comparing a G35 to I35. Any depreciation "gueses" by various sites on these cars are just that until we see adequate vehicle turnover.
Aug 13, 2003 (1:20 pm)
This is how I would break down a depreciation calculation. However when comparing depreciation there are many factors that could come into play. If you finance interest rate play a major part because if you go to trade in the loan balances would be very different on a 2.9% loan than an 6-7% loan so while one car may have a better depreciation curve the actual out of pocket amount on any given day could be drastically different. But here is my best shot anyway assuming cash buyers.
First a little blurb on the FX depreciation. I have a RWD FX35 tech MSRP was 44,345. I paid 40,530. Currently Terry says its worth about 35,500. On paper looking at MSRP my depreciation is 9,155. But my out of pocket depreciation is 5,000. Figure if I sold it myself I could get 1,500 more for it it takes my out of pocket down to ~3500. now based on my payoff I am upside down a little over 1500 dollars so all in all the depreciation is not that bad if I had to sell it because of financial trouble or just wanted to get out of the car. below are 3yr analysis for the mdx and rx.
A 2001 MDX MSRP was 34,370 at that time most of these sold for sticker. So lets assume the avg purchase price was 34,370.
Kbb.com has the following data
Used retail 29,700
used pparty 25,415
used trade 22,885
Used retail 28,254
used pparty 26,322
used trade 24,226
Avg trade 23555
Avg pparty 25868
Avg Retail 28977
Avg between trade and pparty 24711
3 yr depreciation from MSRP 9659
3 yr depreciation from Purchase Price 9659
(.15c per mile avg car depreciation) 5700 (38K)
MDX Depreciation over $3959
RX300 in 2001 had a base MSRP of 35,655 + 3000 in options (leather, roof Cd changer) avg discout of 1500 off msrp. Would leave a purchase price of 37,155
Kbb.com has the following data
Used retail 28,835
used pparty 23,905
used trade 20,705
Used retail 28,212
used pparty 26,198
used trade 24,240
Avg trade 22472
Avg pparty 25051
Avg Retail 28523
Avg between trade and pparty 23761
3 yr depreciation from MSRP 14894
3 yr depreciation from Purchase Price 13394
(.15c per mile avg car depreciation) 5700 (38K)
RX300 Depreciation from MSRP $9194
RX300 Out of pocket Depreciation $7694
Aug 13, 2003 (1:43 pm)
TCO is True Cost to Own. Here's the link:
True Cost to Own
Clpurnell, "The purchase price employed is the vehicle's True Market Value® price in your state (including typical equipment and destination charge)." link
Hopefully the TCO tool will be tweaked someday to let us enter our own numbers into the formula.
I keep track of all my auto expenses, and the TCO prediction just happens to exactly match my cost per mile to drive my minivan
#1060 of 3411 Depriciation continued
Aug 14, 2003 (4:28 am)
Thanks for taking the time to read thru it all!!
Ravi, Please see the link above for TCO (Thanks, Steve!)
CLPlumell, Thanks for taking the time to investigate this further; Like I have indicated before, this is not a bullet proof calculation method. It's just my own attempt at making the dealer see some logic when pricing a demo model. I would suggest that everyone take this with a grain of salt and fine tune it in any way you see fit / applicable, depending on your specific scenario.
Finance charges were not calculated as part of the depreciation for any of the vehicles. You will still accure them on any vehicle, and it will be somewhat the same on say, a 25K loan.
BTW, I made a typo on the MDX values: The $1200 figure is based on an actual buying price of $2500 below sticker. That seems to be the going rate here.
Just remember: You really have to negotiate tough to get these prices on any of the vehicles. be prepared to walk away from 15 different dealerships, that typa stuff....
But in an extremely competetive market like NJ, this is certainly doable, except for the RX, it looks like. I did happen to deal with an educated sales person the Lex dealership and he said at the end of the test drive that they do "$1K off sticker but they will not lose a deal for another $300". I liked the Cust service and promised to contact him back, should I go with it. I also indicated that I am ready to look all over the eastern seaboard for a good deal and he said he will do what he can to get my business. I will be testing the FX the day after and share my views!!
Aug 14, 2003 (10:26 am)
I have found the KBB and Edmunds values for used cars to be completely unrealistic, especially for trade-in value (At least here in So. Cal.)
I have had a running argument with the KBB people about this, but they cannot present a coherent reason why the REAL amount dealers will give you is about 30% less than their stated value. Just be prepared for this at trade-in time, and consider this in your estimated trade-in calculations.
Aug 14, 2003 (12:12 pm)
Kelley is another story, and they have different numbers for consumers and dealers. You gotta pay to get the dealer numbers. Here's yet another link:
What is the "Kelley Blue Book" Price?
Aug 15, 2003 (9:09 am)
Thanks, Steve, for the input.
This is EXACTLY my point regarding KBB/Edmunds - WHY even offer the online prices if they are not based on reality? Why mislead the consumer? It would be better for us if they didn't even post these fictitious prices.
Perhaps Edmunds could do everyone a HUGE favor and start a new pricing advisory - TTV - "True Trade-In Value" - What people really got trading in their cars as reported by the new buyers.
Sorry to be off topic - but this is a sore point with me.
By the way, I am seeing a lot more FXs on the road here in L.A. - they are still awsome to me and I can't wait for my current lease to expire at the end of this year!
Aug 15, 2003 (9:17 am)
Our TMV prices for used vehicles are based on real world transactions. Lots of those are extrapolated from the car auctions, but they are still real numbers.
And they are adjusted depending on whether you are doing a trade, or a private sale, etc.
But we don't buy cars and neither does Kelley. Our numbers are updated monthly, but the auctions are on-going, and occur weekly at least in most areas. But we're usually right in the ballpark - often Terry or another dealer in Real World Trade-In Values can give you a number good for today.