Last post on Oct 02, 2002 at 4:10 PM
You are in the Pickups - Archived Discussions
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Toyota Tacoma, Ford Ranger
Sep 25, 2002 (7:19 am)
Misunderstanding is the failure of communication. It is as much the speaker's fault, as it is the fault of the listener. Only the self righteous do not see it that way...
"5. Ranger stickered for about $23,800 and was not loaded. No PW, PL, off-road package, bedliner, fancy alloy wheels, 31" tires, etc. I bought my Tacoma TRD with these features (and more) for $22,500 drive-out. Still wondering if the Ranger's price advantage is "real.""
I can prove you wrong in the "You guys said" statement. I never said it, but you lumped me in to the "other" group who happens to support ford. "We" said:
[Bess] Most Rangers can be drivin off the lot at prices that are more than $2000 less than MSRP.
[Tbunder] there is no way any ranger priced at "$23500" doesn't have everything.
[eagle63] I'm a little skeptical too. I don't see how any compact truck could sticker for almost $24000 and not have power locks, windows, etc.
[Bess] In 2002, on the XLT's it costs an extra $350 to get the power windows/locks/mirrors/keyless entry from the factory (package 47F)
Where's my statement!?!
All I know is there is a little missinterpretation over MSRP and take home price, but "with all due respect", "learn to read". You are making an argument with me, but you are sticking words into my mouth. I am not arguing that a truck with that MSRP can not have a particular option. All I know is you are comparing one truck's MSRP with your Invoice. See post #1641, by Bess, add in Scoprio's truck for comparison, add an automatic transmission and some options and see who costs less MSRP or Take home.
Let me ask again: Do you not drive a regular cab?
Sep 25, 2002 (9:55 am)
"Misunderstanding is the failure of communication. It is as much the speaker's fault, as it is the fault of the listener. Only the self righteous do not see it that way... "
Intriguing, but when only one party out of many seems to have a constant misunderstanding problem, fault can be directed more easily...
Again, this debate is about the fact your fellow Ford fans said it was impossible a $23,820 stickered Ranger did not come loaded, let alone without PW and PDLs. I proved them wrong. Suck it up and get over it already.
Then you began talking nonsense about invoices and people being suckers for paying MSRP. THIS DEBATE ISN'T ABOUT INVOICES AND MSRPS. IT IS ABOUT RANGER FANS BEING MISLEADING ON WHAT THEIR TRUCKS STICKER FOR.
Your last paragraph only further illustrates your confusion and misunderstanding. Where am I comparing one truck's MSRP to my invoice? I'm sorry, can you point out to me where I posted my truck's invoice figures and made a comparison? You asked me: "Let me ask again: Do you not drive a regular cab?" Can you also point out where you asked me that the first time? I think you're all confundido, amigo...
Here's the summarized version for you which also addresses your invoice/MSRP contribution to the debate:
I think the Ranger guys downplay what their trucks REALLY sticker for. I think when people say Rangers are less expensive, they are mismatching their comparisons (like bess comparing a double-cab Tacoma to an Ex-cab Ranger). After factory rebates and dealer negotiations (Yes, Toyotas have rebates and let you negotiate too), I don't think Rangers are actually puchased for thousands and thousands less than Tacomas.
And for the millionth time, my truck is an Ex-Cab, not regular cab.
Sep 25, 2002 (10:27 am)
1. "IT IS ABOUT RANGER FANS BEING MISLEADING ON WHAT THEIR TRUCKS STICKER FOR."
You are right! It is a big conspiracy.
One person was wrong, and you think it is a big cover up. What I said before was that MSRP really isn't much more than a high starting point for negotiations.
Also, see point 6 below.
2. "I proved them wrong. Suck it up and get over it already.
I now dub Plutonium the victor of Tacoma vs Ranger! Woohoo, congrats. You are the victor of a computer BBS forum. You should be getting an Edmunds.com sticker in the mail soon.
3. "Where am I comparing one truck's MSRP to my invoice?"
I quoted your post (#1626) in my post (#1648). Plain as day, Amigo. Here it is again...
Pluto Originally said:"5. Ranger stickered for about $23,800 and was not loaded. No PW, PL, off-road package, bedliner, fancy alloy wheels, 31" tires, etc. I bought my Tacoma TRD with these features (and more) for $22,500 drive-out. Still wondering if the Ranger's price advantage is "real.""
Looks like comparing the Ranger's MSRP to your Tacoma's drive out price to me. Now don't confuse yourself, because I was talking about stickered vs actual purchase price, you just stuck in the term invoice into your question. See your post #1649's reference to the last paragraph in my post #1648.
4. ""Let me ask again: Do you not drive a regular cab?" Can you also point out where you asked me that the first time?"
Post #1646, my post that appears just before you told me to "learn to R-E-A-D."
5. "I think you're all confundido, amigo..."
Let me quote yourself "Intriguing, but when only one party out of many seems to have a constant misunderstanding problem, fault can be directed more easily... "
Ever hear of the kettle calling the pot black? You might want to stop trying to assign and direct fault. Then you will not seem so stressed.
6. "Again, this debate is about the fact your fellow Ford fans said it was impossible a $23,820 stickered Ranger did not come loaded"
Actually Tbunder was was only one to say that, and now you giving us all credit. In all actuality, he was probably thinking about the out-the-door price, not MSRP or stickered price.
Pluto, my good sir, you are definitely a planet in your very own orbit, albeit elliptical (and angry). =)
#1709 of 1840 Oh, so on your planet, driveout equals invoice, right?
Sep 25, 2002 (11:05 am)
Even on Pluto, we know that drive-out is the FINAL price which includes tax, title and licensing. Maybe in your flawed Texas vernacular, the words "invoice" and "driveout price" are interchangeable?
Seems we have a communication problem here. I've noticed that IN GENERAL, the English spoken in Texas isn't, how can I say this nicely - the "best" I've heard (a thought shared by many of ya'all's fellow North Americans, BTW). Of course, the same can be said of the Spanish I've heard there too. Maybe that's why there's "Tex-Mex," a made-up language of English and Spanish because so many people can't speak either well? Oh well, that's a discussion for a different day...all I'm saying is your English is no doubt a part of this two-way communication problem between us.
So this all ends with a:
"You are right! It is a big conspiracy. One person was wrong, and you think it is a big cover up...I now dub Plutonium the victor of Tacoma vs Ranger! Woohoo, congrats. You are the victor of a computer BBS forum. You should be getting an Edmunds.com sticker in the mail soon."
Victory is still sweet, especially when the loser is so bitter!
#1710 of 1840 Jees I missed alot
Sep 25, 2002 (12:09 pm)
One question, is the v6 that comes in some F-150s the 4.0L that comes in Rangers. I heard on some show that F-150s had a 4.2L v6 and I am too lazy to look it up.
Either way, I drove a 2002 v6 4x4 LB RC F-150 at work this summer and that thing was a complete dog. There was one big hill that I had to climb at least 6 times a day in it and my truck. The f-150 needed 2nd gear and alot of coaxing, while my truck would take it in 3rd w/o any extra push needed.
And for the record, Im not buying the Ranger price advantage anymore either. I used to say that the Ranger was the best VALUE, now its not even that. Nice job for opening our eyes pluto, thanx. Every last one of you Ranger guys pushed that one "fact" more than anything else and I always just thought it was true without challenging it. I guess now your only bogus advantage to push will be that BIG MAC sales stat. Keep trying guys, nothin but love! Have a good one!
Sep 25, 2002 (12:13 pm)
That one word in one post from a myriad, in this discussion has caused all this? LOL, talk about being critical over the minutia of daily musings. Your observation on the price difference is flawed itself. Even this Texan with a "flawed vernacular" (which that term, in itself, is a contradiction in definition) can see that you cannot compare one vehicle's MSRP with another vehicle's final price.
For the record, the only time I used the word invoice was in regards to the price you should be seeking when buying a vehicle. Please see my 3rd paragraph in my last post in which I said "Now don't confuse yourself, because I was talking about stickered vs actual purchase price, you just stuck in the term invoice into your question."
You put it best "I bought the truck for a few hundred dollars over invoice. " So in this instance, your critiquing my mistake that is only good for a few hundred dollars difference?
So you see Pluto, you are causing your own self-confusion. If you simply read the posts appearing before your own, you will find that most of your questions and statements are lacking in some regard or another. All it takes is an open mind to interpretation, a un-biased method of observation, and the ability to empathize.
If you quit stereo typing individuals, Ford Fans, Ranger Owners, Texans, etc, you may find out that we are all just truck enthusiasts who may or may not share the same opinions.
#1712 of 1840 What do u do for a living stang?
Sep 25, 2002 (12:24 pm)
What does everyone think of the 4runners after reading that? Im stoked. You guys better hope that they find a way to put some more valves on that 4.6L if you wanna hang with the 4.0L in the new Tacos.
Someone post the engine specs of the Ranger 4.0L so we can compare em with a real 4.0L. Hehe, I love the way Toyota does that. 283ft-lbs torque at 3400 rpms in a v6. OMG, I can't wait for 04!
Sep 25, 2002 (12:38 pm)
I believe the 4.2l is a stroked version of the 3.8l as found in the Mustang, windstars and the like. I guess that 4x4 really soaked up some power, because my friend's late 90's 4.2l was pretty peppy. It was a manual, and a barebones XL.
Also the price advantage is still there, just don't take Pluto's comparison of MSRP vs his final price.
If I took my purchase price and compared a similairly equipped Tacoma's MSRP, I would probably see a difference of about 4 grand.
Click on my name if you want to know what I do for a living.
#1714 of 1840 pluto: PLEASE READ
Sep 25, 2002 (1:11 pm)
Question: Do you have Adobe Acrobat?
If so, tomorrow I will send you the PROOF you have been asking for. Specifically, I will send you copies of the window sticker AND the Bill of Sale for the Ranger I purchased six months ago.
All I ask in return is that you post something to the forum regarding the FACT that you have seen what at least one Ranger owner paid for his truck compared to the window sticker.
Is that fair enough? Is there anything else you need for proof?