Last post on Oct 02, 2002 at 3:10 PM
You are in the Pickups - Archived Discussions
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Toyota Tacoma, Ford Ranger
#152 of 1840 eharri......
Jan 18, 2002 (12:24 am)
i know exactly what you mean. it seems the toyota guys like to quote these magazine articles and such. but whenever a fact about the ranger's superiority over the tacoma in any category comes up, they totally ignore it.
the big one being that the ranger has more stock power and torque, and it takes a $3000 piece of aftermarket equipment (may have toyota's name on it, but its still modifying a perfect engine) to surpass the ranger's power output. the ranger sells hundreds of thousands more, has more standard equipment, can tow more, has higher gvwr, larger axles, tougher transfer case, larger stock tires, higher safety ratings, etc. all of these things have been sidestepped by the toyota crowd. im not surprised though. they are all facts, and proves that the ranger is a better buy and more capable. yeah, unohoo will brag about the locker they can get, well heck, i can get a powertrax lock right locker that operates automatically at any speed and will last forever for $350. a simple bolt in item. they're not that exclusive.
whenever i even bring up the sales thing, they have some excuse as to why the tacoma can't come close to the ranger, but then they claim their truck is considered the best by the general public (why then won't it sell more?). the resale value issue is dead in the water as well, just punch up comparably equipped trucks for the '01 year. and the clincher has to be that four-wheeler article unohoo posts daily from 1998. in that year, the ranger came stock with 29 inch tires on the off-road package. the trd had 31's, like i said, put on comparably equipped tires, and any truck will run with most any other truck.
there is no doubt in my mind that the tacoma is an awesome truck. but to call it the 'best' is overstating it a bit. when it can't even come close to the ranger in sales, something tells me that it may not be what its all cracked up to be. it does offer a crew cab option though, kudos to toyota for that. and to charge extra for the abs option, like toyota does, is like asking your customer if they want a better chance of avoiding an accident or not. that's crazy. ford includes it standard.
#153 of 1840 But of course
Jan 18, 2002 (5:22 am)
Whenever you mention the Ranger's extra standard equipment, the Toyota boys will tell you it's all stuff you don't need in a truck, even though most of us use our trucks like cars at least part of the time.
#154 of 1840 eharri, tbunder
Jan 18, 2002 (7:17 am)
Ok, one at a time:
1. Ranger engine being stronger. Sure, it is. But as tbunder has once said himself (defending his then-decision to buy Nissan...it's only 20 hp, and we are all spoiled anyway by all this power).
2. Standard equipment: if you Ranger boys think you are not paying for it, you are in for a surprise. There is no such thing as free lunch. Especially when you are buying something. All your standard equipment is paid for in the cost of the truck. Perhaps I am a minority here, but I like to have a choice when I make a purchase like this. I was considering to get a truck without AC (I know, no AC in TX is a killer, but I drive without it in the summer anyway). Toyota could have sold a truck like that to me (finding it is another matter, though). What would I have to do with Ranger? Quote tbunder "Buy one with AC, then take the whole thing out and sell it". Yeah right.
Larger stock tires? Well, I suppose so...but then again, noone in their right mind would (Actually, I take that back....There was a guy) buy a 4x4 with 225 tires. And this is just my opinioin, but
having leather and 6-CD changer in a truck is just outrageous (And no, I still do not believe tbunder when he said he could really use a CD changer so that he "doesnt have to take his eyes off the road" with his new baby on the way.)
3. Safety: We've been down this road before. Ignoring obyone, the conclusion is: each party uses the results that are better for them. Lets put it this way: we've arrived at that Ranger and Tacoma are equally safe. I am ignoring obyone, because he's stuck somewhere in the past.
4. Locker: Tbunder, go to the ttora site, just for the heck of it, and seach for "Another powertrax bites the dust" message. Also, my locker, if I remember correctly cost me somewhere close to $300, so pretty much same as yours. But then again, you don't offroad, according to your ebay ad, so why would you need one.
5. Ahhhh...sales. I can't explain it, but I have a feeling why Toyota does what it does. Toyota sells as many Tacomas as they need. THe sales are increasing every year, but not at an insane rate.
A comfortable growth for a company....steadily growing in this time of recession. Ford had flooded the country with cheap vehicles, and see where it got them? Yeah, they sold thousands more cars and trucks, but how about those layoffs. Somebody is running out of money.
Toyota doesnt need to get to #1 spot (whatever it may be) fast. They are pacing along, making enough money as they need/want, taking their time, watching others fall. Thats my take on it.
But of course, I am dead wrong. If I am, why is it the only thing I see at the used car dealerships are Chevys and Fords? I don't see any Toyotas there. (And don't tell me it's "because Chevy and Ford make a lot more vehicles", yes they do, but if they are as good as everybody is making them to be, why arent they sold yet?)
#155 of 1840 This will go on forever...
Jan 18, 2002 (7:36 am)
You do have a point with that autoninfo.net website being that it was created by a Toyota loyalist, and we all know how statistics and figures can be manipulated to show anything you want them to. Hey, I work for the government, I know all about that, trust me...but what about all the other media sources? That's why I used the word "collectively."
"like i said lastnight pluto, your trd tacoma is now four years old, that article is circa '98-pluto...your precious TRD was put to the test this year, and the best it could muster was 3rd place. and to think, it got beat by a dodge truck"
tbunder, it is perfectly obvious among four-wheeling enthusiasts that the Tacoma TRD is the most capable off-roader in stock form. Just recently, it outperformed a Jeep, Land Rover and Hummer in a comparo (I forget who did it, but it was one of the major 4x4 publications) because it's still the only stock vehicle with a locker. I don't care if they put a 300HP V8 in your Ranger, it isn't going to help you if you don't have the traction a true locker provides. And I've heard about that comparo with the new Dodge Ram and a Tacoma. Ram versus Tacoma? Huh? Full-size versus compact? Does that make any sense to you? Are you REALLY going to tell me a Ram will outperform the Tacoma off-road? Well, I'm sure it tows more and has more room, as it's full-size. Maybe that's why it rated better than the Tacoma? Either way, I wouldn't buy a truck that sucks gas like there's no tomorrow, only to have the engine detuned because the tranny on those trucks are so weak.
Now it seems your debate is supported solely by the Ranger's newly updated 4.0. Yes, this engine has SLIGHTLY more power than the Tacoma's 3.4 which has been in service for 7 years now (making the Tacoma's engine the stronger of the two for 6 of the 7 past years). This is an advantage you will enjoy for one year, as the updated Tacoma is due in 2003 with a 3.7 litre engine which I'm more than sure will outperform the 4.0.
I apologize if the tactics used by the Toyota fans upset you and you wish they would just "shut up." Personally, I would find your posted links from sources like tundrasolutions.com nonsensical. You can post all the problems you can find with Toyota trucks, but that doesn't change the fact that Toyota trucks are rated WELL ABOVE THE INDUSTRY AVERAGE for quality, reliability and lack of problems. This just tells me for every Toyota problem you can find, there's 10 more problems with the Fords or Chevys.
Besides, do you really expect nonsensical comments like "Toyotas are reliable because they're lighter duty and fewer are made" or "Toyotas need superchargers to be competitive due to lack of displacement" to go unchallenged? With all due respect, those rank as some of the most erroneous, ignorant and even humorous statements in this debate.
Jan 18, 2002 (8:16 am)
I don't think you can include both best off-roading vehicle in stock trim, and vehicle with best re-sale value. I think if you have one, you don't really care about the other...
Pluto--->Some would say that a 351 has SLIGHTLY more power than the 302. When looking at peak values, you wouldn't see a huge difference. But Cubic inches will give you more power, and this is seen with the low end torque and abundant power through the 4.0l's RPM range.
Scorpio--->The value of options are indeed in the eye of the beholder. I understand you have more spartan desires, but I can safely say that the truck buying majority will appreciate A/C, a 6 disc changer, and ABS. I can understand about the leather, but I don't think you can get many (if any) Rangers with that option. That may be in the FX4 however...
Locker's are great for those looking for the "ultimate stock off-road vehicle". However, those who don't live in "God's Country", really don't have much use. I think the argument can be had that more people need a LSD than they'll ever need a Locker(or otherwise open diff).
#157 of 1840 That's what's so great about the Tacoma
Jan 18, 2002 (8:35 am)
If you don't want the locker, you don't have to buy the TRD package. Just like if you don't want the supercharger, you don't have to buy it. At least Toyota gives you the option.
Personally, I'm more interested in lockers and superchargers than 6 disk CD players...
As far as resale value goes - look in the classifieds, wheel-deals, or what other auto-trader publication is in your area. No contest - Tacomas hold their value extremely well. Perhaps your reasoning behind your statement of "off-roaders not holding their value" is due to the fact that, before the Tacoma TRD, such vehicles had after-purchase modifications that most people wouldn't be interested in. The Tacoma TRD comes from the factory already equipped...
Jan 18, 2002 (10:15 am)
Don't forget about the mp3 player.
Jan 18, 2002 (1:22 pm)
Ok, sort of like if I want step bars, I don't have to buy it. Like a Limited Slip, another option you can get. Just like the Locker, but it's an option or available in a package. Different options all available at the factory. But for the mass public, a LSD is more useful than a Locker ever will. Any make gives you the option of purchasing options, hence the name, options.
I guess a clock in the radio is too much to ask, too. At least in a Ranger you can read the time without moving your head.
I will agree that the engine and drivetrain options are pretty much the mean and potatoes of any truck purchase, and are the more determining factor in truck purchases. However, you really can't knock other nice amenities being available, like a 6 disc in dash changer. That's just something extra for those interested.
The other misconstrued point, was that if you want the ultimate off-road vehicle, you're probably not gonna have a very cherry truck when it's time to sell. Off-roading tends to beat up vehicles, especially sheet metal and drivetrain.
#160 of 1840 and still......
Jan 18, 2002 (1:40 pm)
the hard facts were ignored.
pluto, your new 3.7 (is that all they can put out) will be killed by the new ranger V8 coming in '03. not to mention the 275 horse I-6 coming in the new colorado.
again, you're using an article that is at least two years old.
and now, you're ditching your claim to four-wheeler as being the experts? i mean, they're the ones who say the new dodge is better than the TRD, both tacoma and the mid-size tundra.
scorpio- we may pay for these standard amenities, but we still get more stuff for less money than toyota offers. everything i stated costs extra on a tacoma. plus, you ever looked at those "bars" toyota offers? looks like something hanging off a hydraulic impala. at least ford builds their own accessories to fit each individual vehicle, and doesn't depend on an aftermarket company to do it for them.
that power advantage just kills you guys doesn't it? and as far as the lock-right locker? i don't know what you've read, (why would toyota boys have one in their trucks if the stock one is so good) but its rated as the best locker out there for the money. plus, you don't have to worry about switching it on, it releases the axles in a straight line, but locks when needed. and it uses no clutches to wear out. its trick, you should check one out.
#161 of 1840 Whatever, guys...
Jan 18, 2002 (2:06 pm)
"Any make gives you the option of purchasing options, hence the name, options."
Well, although any make gives you options, only Toyota gives you the options of lockers, superchargers and what's been acclaimed the best off-road suspension, which is what performance enthusiasts want.
"I guess a clock in the radio is too much to ask, too. At least in a Ranger you can read the time without moving your head."
The Fords we have at work require you to put the display on either "clock" mode or "radio station" mode. I would rather have the radio always show what station it's tuned into, or whatever CD track it's playing and having a totally separate clock which always shows the time. I get tired of pushing buttons to see what time it is, or what the radio's doing.
tbunder, do you really think I'm going to take any comparo pitting a Tacoma against a Ram seriously? Since you love that article so much, then why don't you go buy a Ram? And if a Ranger gets a V8, like others have stated, it will probably resemble something like the Dakota more than the current Ranger, putting it into a different class of truck anyway. Also, I would be a little cautious before jumping in and buying a new Ford V8 or the I-6 in the Colorado. History has shown that new engines/platforms, especially from Ford/Chevy, require several years before they are debugged. The 1999 Silverado/Sierra with the much anticipated Vortech engine is a perfect example. To this day, those engines still haven't stopped knocking...
Oh, and your comment about the power advantage of the Ranger "killing" me doesn't make any sense, unless you're trying to kill me by making me laugh to death. The supercharged Tacoma makes 265 horses and something like 275 lb/ft torque, I believe. And the Toyota 4.7 V8 makes 245 horses and 315 lb/ft torque, which totally outperforms the current Ford 4.6 (231 horses and 292 lb/ft torque). So you better hope Ford doesn't put their 4.6 in the new Ranger because Toyota will still clobber it.
As for lockers...well, you're probably more up-to-date on that stuff than I am. My truck came with a locker, so I haven't had to research the aftermarket ones, hehehe... Oh, and there's no cluthes to wear out on my locker either. Your LSD with no locker has that problem.
Have a nice day