Last post on Oct 02, 2002 at 4:10 PM
You are in the Pickups - Archived Discussions
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Toyota Tacoma, Ford Ranger
May 11, 2002 (11:06 am)
is a LSD better for towing, hauling and pulling? If one of your tires is losing traction while towing, hauling or pulling I'd say you have bigger problems to worry about than LSD vs. locker, LOL! And in the case of pulling something and having a tire lose traction, I'd say a locker would work even been than an LSD.
"Its very obviouse you don't understand HP/Torque curves.. otherwise you would have looked a bit harder at the RAnger.."
No, I for one understand them perfectly, which is exactly why if I needed a serious work truck, I'd only get a diesel. But for a small compact truck whose towing capacity is very limited, it's not as critical as you make it out to be.
But for the record, the V6 Tacoma out-accelerated the 4.0 V6 Ranger in that 1998 comparo, both loaded and unloaded. Maybe Ford's newer 4.0 can finally give the Toyota's 3.4 (8 years old now?) a run for its money!
#1123 of 1840 history and semantics
May 11, 2002 (11:46 am)
stang, tbunder said "country that started WW2", I'm just clarifying it. There's not a word in there about US involvement, you added that on later.
ak: The world would not be in its present form without the USSR. Consequently, in many respects, the world does revolve around USSR (Russia). This can be said about almost any country (England for the technological revolution, Spain for inquisition, etc).
Anyway, sorry for starting this up. Just wanted to correct tbunder. Lets not go deeper into the history of the world.
May 11, 2002 (12:25 pm)
A limited slip diff works with clutches. When one wheel starts to slip this slipping action engages the other wheel. A locker however is locked in and both wheels turn all the time. A LSD is far less expensive to rebuild and a locker, along with MUCH easier..
1998 comparison!??? The new SOHC 4.0 will just plain outpower your Toyota 3.4...
Pluto, you are talking to someone with over 15 years of offroad experience here.. How long have you been offroading? Where do you offroad? What are the classes of trails? name them from hardest to easiest please...
Plane and simple is my Ranger will get me anywhere you Toyota will go..
#1125 of 1840 You still have not explained how, Scape
May 11, 2002 (1:39 pm)
the LSD is more useful than a locker when towind -- not "pulling." Maybe accelerating off the line??? Maybe going around a wet turn, but why should you go that fast anyway, stupid. With all due respect, the BS is getting deeper and deeper. I think I pointed out that the LSD would have done the same in my particular boat situation. I still consider that towing though.
However, let's say for a second that you are entirely right. That still does not mean that Fords best LSD and Toyotas locker are part of a towing and pulling packages. They are part of the respective OFF ROAD packages of each model. With that said, call it a hunch, but I would believe most people purpose those packages with off roading MORE in mind than towing and pulling. I know that's what I was thinking when I got my truck with the locker. I have said this like 200000 times and you still bring up the same irrelevant point. You said yourself that the locker is better off road, so why can't you see that it is more appropriate in an off road package than an LSD?
Again, I say: lift a tire off the ground and tell me what happens. I bet you, that if me and you go thru the same spot where a back tire simply lifts off the ground and all three other tires stay on the ground, my 2wd w/ locker would make it as easy as you. Of course, you didn't answer that the last six times I asked it, though. Why would you now? You will NOT go anywhere a locked Toyota will, I am sorry.
#1126 of 1840 gotta love vinny,
May 11, 2002 (8:10 pm)
no matter how many times he posts his HP/torque curves, he gets the same response. nothing. He just doesn't get it that no one here cares about HP/torque curves. don't worry vinny, I'm just giving you a hard time. although I do question this statement:
"A LSD is far less expensive to rebuild and a locker, along with MUCH easier.."
-you're right. but fortunately, lockers generally don't need to be rebuilt, whereas LSD's do.
May 11, 2002 (8:42 pm)
"you're right. but fortunately, lockers generally don't need to be rebuilt, whereas LSD's do."
That is true, but it's easy to see why. Because in any given 60,000 miles, a locker is "locked" for maybe 1-2,000 miles tops. While the Limited Slip probably see's around 30-40,000 miles of use (any clutch wearing incident). Just estimations, but you get the idea.
Locker, good for off-roading, but not for turning. Good for "pulling boats out of water", but again, nothing over 20-25 MPH, or turning.
Limited slip, good for always on traction, especially payment and turning/curves in road. Good for towing in general, and pretty much any safe speed.
Pro and cons for each, just depends on what application you buy and use your compact truck for.
pluto--->I do not know if you have considered it or not, but the 1998 model 4.0L Ranger has about 47 less horsepower than the current 4.0l. Maybe it is time to retire the review from 1998.
May 11, 2002 (10:31 pm)
scorp says the world does not revolve around the U.S. yeah, right bud. and yes, i did misspeak about what country started ww2. i did mean with us, and you knew that. sorry to make my statements so hard to understand. also, if you want to see where simpson college ranks among colleges, check out us news and world report. you'll see its #1 in the midwest.
pluto- stang has just said it. its time to deal with the present. and that being said, the trd only scores a 3rd place in truck contests.
anyways, i think im retiring from this board. i am considering buying a mazda protege5, yes a 100% japanese car that is actually built in hiroshima and shipped over. its cheaper than 4x4's, and more functional for me right now than a truck (better mileage, funner, cheaper, and not like everyone else). not to mention it is imo, one of the coolest cars out, with the sportronic auto/man shifter.
so take your lsd/locker/off-road/whatever discussions we've rehashed here umpteen times over the last 8 mos, and leave my name out of them. its been fun. when i buy another 4x4, ill chime in again.
#1129 of 1840 tbunder, can you take scape2 with you please?
May 11, 2002 (11:16 pm)
Ditto saddaddy's comments, scape2. You haven't explained how your LSD helps you tow, haul or pull. I don't see many people's tires "peeling out" and losing traction when they tow, haul or pull, except for maybe on a slick boat ramp when pulling a boat. The locker is even better than the LSD in that situation.
Just curious, isn't the non-TRD Tacoma available with an LSD anyways? Pick which one you want, then!
What's my four-wheeling experience? Well, the very fact that you ask what class of trails I drive on tells me you're a recreational offroader. I don't four-wheel for fun, for me, it's part of life. For almost 10 years I've been through the worst, roughest, flooded, dilapidated "streets" in Mexico, and my truck spends 90% of its time on ranches in south central Mexico which resembles a jungle more than anything. There's no way you can convince me a LSD is better for climbing up a muddy, caliche, bumpy hill than a locker. If you want to classify what I've been driving in the last decade, be my guest.
Stang: "but the 1998 model 4.0L Ranger has about 47 less horsepower than the current 4.0l"
Wow, so in 1998 the Ford 4.0 was only making about 160 horses, while the Toyota 3.4 was making 190? It's taken Ford 8 years to make a 4.0 outperform Toyota's 3.4? And it only outperforms it by 17 horses? Is that really something to be proud of?
#1130 of 1840 I will say this again
May 12, 2002 (7:34 am)
A locker is better for offroading, better than an LSD.
But, how often will the average person use this locker? Maybe 2% of their total driving time? A locker is only supposed to be used in extreme conditions. Most people don't even know when to use thier locker or how to use thier locker. a limited slip diff has much more use and function for the everyday user. The locker is normally an OPEN axle, do you not understand what this means? Its funny how some will beat thier chests about offroad ability. Yet stats show over 90 percent of 4x4 vehicles barely even see a gravel road. The Ranger offers a nice ride for city streets, yet give you the aiblity to visit your natiional forests, parks.
plut.. made my point.. I use my RAnger in the Cacade Mountains.. MT Hood, MT St. Helens, Jefferson, 3 sisters.. look them up on a map. I have also been into the Tillamook National Forest area, Coast Ranges of Oregon/Washington. I have been to Lions Back/Utah/Nevada and rock climbed with Jeepers on many occasions(not my Ranger).
The Ranger is a capaple truck, just as capable as a Toyota. Toyota trucks don't come with some magic potion for offroading. 1998?? Why are we going back into the past? The new 4.0 will out pull/perform/haul the 3.4 in the Toyota. You have to rev the heck out of the Toyota to get any power. The Torque/HP curve on the Ranger is much more aggressive and truck like.
May 12, 2002 (10:24 am)
"It's taken Ford 8 years to make a 4.0 outperform Toyota's 3.4? And it only outperforms it by 17 horses? Is that really something to be proud of?"
It's important if you like to drag race stock compact pickup trucks. But even you were bragging how the 1998 Tacoma could out accelerate a Ranger. Maybe it's time for a retest? Even you should understand the difference of 30% extra peak horsepower.
You also forgot that the Ford 4.0l has more torque in either model, clearly a product of it's extra cubic inches. You also forget (or don't know) what a Torque curve (or lack thereof) does for a vehicle on the street with a payload or not. You see peak numbers. I see peak numbers at more truck specific RPM's. I also am a bit familair with the properties of 2valve and 4 valve applications in relations to low, midrange and high-end power production, and of course what good ole cubic inches (no matter how refined you think it is) relates to great power once you leave idle RPM. Someday you won't be as pushy thinking one truck absolutely rules the other in all categories. Either way it's time for a modern comparison, that realizes both pro and cons.
" I don't see many people's tires "peeling out" and losing traction when they tow, haul or pull,"
That's true, except when you are driving home and it rains. If you are towing an ATV, or two motorcycles in a trailer, and it starts to pour, which would you rather have to help you take that curvy on-ramp onto the highway? A locker or a Limited Slip Differential? Both have it's applications. Locker for off-roading, Limited Slip for anything with a turn involved.
"For almost 10 years I've been through the worst, roughest, flooded, dilapidated "streets" in Mexico"
Wow, that's pretty cool for a 1998 truck that you had owned since 1992.