Last post on Nov 22, 2011 at 2:06 PM
You are in the Honda CR-V
What is this discussion about?
Honda CR-V, Ford Escape, Car Safety, Fuel Efficiency (MPG), SUV
#8133 of 8533 Re: Visit [scape2]
Jan 20, 2007 (3:16 pm)
"the MSN auto website and go to thier reliability data.. Compare the CRV and the Escape.. You'll be surprised... Hint.. Honda folks don't like it...."
I visited the site, and both were rated 5 of 5 (2004). What's not to like about that?
According to the site, the Escape had engine reliability problems in 2000 and 2001. The 2002 CR-V had some kind of issue with the drivers side door. The Gen 1 CR-V indicated problems with the EGR valve and evap canister (1997 - 2001, of course the Escape wasn't built for most of that time).
#8134 of 8533 Re: Something Slow and Thirsty [richk6]
Jan 20, 2007 (8:57 pm)
This IMO contributes to unbiased and objective testing.
That's a fine opinion to have and I have no problem with that. However, you have to realize that they recommend Hondas and Toyotas quite often, therefore most of their subscribers are bound to be Honda and Toyota owners. Don't you think that by making the subscriber base, i.e. their soul source of income, happy is the best way to go? Did it ever occur to anyone that their survey returns are heavily weighted towards the vehicles they recommend?
You can read a good auto review in Motortend, than read a three page ad for the same auto following it.
IIRC there's a big old Ford truck ad in the current MT where a Chevy has been crowned "Truck of the Year". A Ford was in the competition BTW.
If you think any of these rags are out to save you from corporate America, think again. They are all out for their own good no matter what they say.
#8135 of 8533 Re: Something Slow and Thirsty [baggs32]
Jan 21, 2007 (4:19 am)
therefore most of their subscribers are bound to be Honda and Toyota owners
Based on the very wide amount of products they test, people subscribe to CR for many reasons. Many of these may not even own a vehicle. Some may be just interested in a toaster purchase.
The horse comes before the cart. Do you think if a Honda owner had a very bad service record with his vehicle, he would send CR a favorable survey about that vehicle?
A recent issue tested and gave the Ford Fusion a very good review. CR could not yet recommend the Fusion because it is an entirely new design, and had not yet established a reliability base. I'm sure if CR sent a survey to a Fusion buyer, (who happened to be a subscriber because of a toaster purchase), and that person sent back a good Fusion survey, CR would recommend it if the number of surveys from happy Fusion owners were sufficient.
I don't think any rags, including CR will save me from "corporate America". If as you say they are all out for their own good, and in that sense are "evil", then I believe CR is the lesser of these "evils".
#8136 of 8533 Re: Something Slow and Thirsty [scape2]
Jan 21, 2007 (7:10 am)
Many people showed how bias CR is in favor of Toyota/Honda products.
Unless CR forces Honda and Toyota owners to give glowing reports on their vehicles when they otherwise would not and throws out the good reports from Ford and other domestic owners how exactly would CR have bias? Paranoia will destroy ya!!
For me, I won't trust a mag that tests toasters.
They test consumer products (Consumer Reports get it??) ranging from (picked two from the latest issue) mail order roses to treadmills. Automobiles and trucks are consumer products that take a big chunk of people's money, so they devote a good portion of each magazine to vehicle reviews.
Either you buy in to what they do or you don't.
#8137 of 8533 Re: Something Slow and Thirsty [baggs32]
Jan 21, 2007 (7:22 am)
"therefore most of their subscribers are bound to be Honda and Toyota owners. Don't you think that by making the subscriber base, i.e. their soul source of income, happy is the best way to go?
Well we own both a Ford Focus and a Honda Oddysey. I was invited for a random survey (it is not often I get one). I have subscribed for the CR magazine for many years. I definitely would stop my subscription If CR magazine recommendations were not in-line with my experience. So far I have had only one bad experience buying their recommendation (Maytag washing machine). But that is what statistics is all about.
In general Honda and Toyota quality is better than a Ford or GM quality and that is the reason the public are putting their money where their mouth is. While Ford closes plants, Honda and Toyota build more plants in the US.
#8138 of 8533 Re: Something Slow and Thirsty [nearmsp]
Jan 21, 2007 (11:04 am)
While Ford closes plants, Honda and Toyota build more plants in the US.
I think I just read that to meet demand Toyota wants to build their eighth manufacturing plant in North America. They now sell more vehicles here than they do in Japan. I'm pretty sure Ford doesn't even have that many active plants any more, even counting Mexico.
But of course when you buy a Honda or Toyota the money spent goes back to Japan and not to any of the tens of thousands of US and Canadian workers at the plants, right scape?
#8139 of 8533 Re: Visit [stevedebi]
Jan 21, 2007 (11:41 am)
"According to the site, the Escape had engine reliability problems in 2000 and 2001."
The way this is stated makes it look like the problem was serious. You fail to mention the cost of the problem and what it is... Why?
#8140 of 8533 Re: Something Slow and Thirsty [drive62]
Jan 21, 2007 (11:44 am)
This is turning away from the topic and they are going to shut this forum down soon.
"But of course when you buy a Honda or Toyota the money spent goes back to Japan and not to any of the tens of thousands of US and Canadian workers at the plants, right scape? "
Directed at me, so I respond.. Show me where there are "tens of thousands" of workers at the Honda/Toyota plants here in the U.S. They hide all the workers they have shipped over from Japan to support these plants. Plust the American public doesn't ever know where the tooling/machinery and support comes from. These are the better paying jobs that require higher education..
#8141 of 8533 Re: Something Slow and Thirsty [scape2]
by kyfdx@Edmunds HOST
Jan 21, 2007 (12:51 pm)
East Liberty, Ohio
Greensburg, IN (under construction)
Those are all plants that are within 3 hours of where I live.. Each of those plants have over 5000 American employees. In addition, within 90 minutes of each of these plants, are suppliers/vendors that employee twice as many workers as the plants themselves..
Japanese workers shipped over? Toyota has their North American manufacturing headquarters about 15 minutes from my house.. They have a decent number of transplants there... but, hardly enough to support more than two or three Japanese restaurants..
The difference between these plants and the Big 2.5 plants that are close? These plants are expanding and the employees' jobs are relatively safe. Ford is closing one of their two local transmission plants, and employees are being bought out.
Most of these plants pay around $18/hr. There are plenty of jobs available in the USA for those that have higher education. There is a much greater need for well paying jobs for those that don't have that education. The Honda, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes and Hyundai plants have the most sought after jobs in every region that they operate. And, local governments are competing for those jobs.
Even people from Missouri can see that...
#8142 of 8533 Re: Something Slow and Thirsty [scape2]
Jan 21, 2007 (9:21 pm)
Show me where there are "tens of thousands" of workers at the Honda/Toyota plants here in the U.S. They hide all the workers they have shipped over from Japan to support these plants. Plust the American public doesn't ever know where the tooling/machinery and support comes from. These are the better paying jobs that require higher education..
Here in Alabama, Hyundai, Mercedes-Benz, and Honda have brought thousands of jobs to the state. With thousands of jobs come many tax dollars flowing into my state.
These three companies are flourishing, best I can tell. They are boosting my state's economy, best I can tell.
Actually, my neighbor's brother (who graduated from my high school about 4 years before I did) services the repairs the robotic machinery at the Honda Odyssey plant in Lincoln, AL (near Talledega). He has a college degree, and got it from Auburn University, if I recall correctly.
I guess that's one worker you can strike from your list that could've been "secretly shipped from Japan."
This is turning away from the topic and they are going to shut this forum down soon.
As long as the host is participating in the discussion, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say "I wouldn't count on that."