Last post on Nov 22, 2011 at 2:06 PM
You are in the Honda CR-V
What is this discussion about?
Honda CR-V, Ford Escape, Car Safety, Fuel Efficiency (MPG), SUV
Jun 04, 2003 (7:48 pm)
Why is it called "luck" when a Ford reaches 100,000 or even 150,000 miles?? I am another who has a family that has owned Ford products over the years and none have been so terrible and unreliable as to have me switch brands. I presently have a 1998 Ford Ranger with over 75,000 miles and was told over and over again by both Toyota and Honda folks it was going to break down and was a piece of junk. My 01 Escape has been flawless after almost two years of driving, towing, and some light 4x4 use to get to my favorite fishing places and skiing spots. I don't buy the blind loyalty and all the stigma of if its a Honda or a Toyota its going to be perfect. Heck, my wifes 00 Accord has been back to the dealer 3x!
As far as incentives go.. Once again. In my region Honda dealers are offering 0% financing along with 2.9, 3.9 ect.. No cash back however. AND CRV's cost more than comparable Escapes.
You also have to wonder, if the Escape is such a terrible, unreliable vehicle don't you think sales would be flat at best? or even go down? Trend is up folks, CRV sales are DOWN....
Jun 05, 2003 (5:00 am)
"You also have to wonder, if the Escape is such a terrible, unreliable vehicle don't you think sales would be flat at best? or even go down? Trend is up folks, CRV sales are DOWN...."
Scape, you're forgetting the all important fleet sales and incentives!
None of us really own Escapes, we just rent them.
"Not true. Research results are facts. Also, they are done under controlled conditions. The problem is in attempting to relate those facts to situations where the control variables are not prescribed and other variables exist."
The results of the studies are facts of the studies themselves. They aren't necessarily the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Use them as guides or starting points when making a decision.
Research results have been overturned before.
#4032 of 8533 "fleet sales and incentives! "
Jun 05, 2003 (6:21 am)
Amen baggs. Amen.
Do you really think incentives don't play a large part? Scape is all giddy that the Escape costs less than a CR-V. Of course the MSRP is much higher but, they couldn't sell them like the CR-V was selling so, they pumped them up with incentives. Don't you think it's a little more than coincidence that the Escape starts to sell better than the CR-V only after incentives are announced on it?
Here's an article about Michigan's fleet sales.
Michigan alone leases almost 10,000 vehicles. That's the state, not local municipalities. Just for arguments sake let's say it averages to 5,000 vehicles per state, that's 250,000 vehicles. And I guarantee you, none of them are Honda or Toyota. Then add corporate fleet sales to the mix.
Scape here's a little read on Honda's disdain for dealer blow out ads-
CR-V sales for May were up. Its market share is also being affected by the Element.
Jun 05, 2003 (9:41 am)
"CR-V sales for May were up. Its market share is also being affected by the Element."
Escape sales broke a May record for the model. Considering you can buy a larger more powerful SUV for about the same price off of the same lot, that's not bad either.
"Do you really think incentives don't play a large part?"
Not for the Escape and most other models. We know that it does for the Taurus and I'd go as far as to say it helps the Foucs' numbers too. Both of those models are quite abundant on rental lots. SUV's aren't. Why? Because people ARE buying them off of the lots. So why sell them to rental fleets?
Fleet sales probably fluctuate too. They don't replace the vehicles every year with a new one. For example, if you are one of the lucky Government employees who gets to drive the "company" car you're not going to get the keys to a brand new Stratus every year. They do maintain them and keep them for a few years.
So, to get to your example, if Dodge sells 10,000 Stratii to the state of Michigan this year, chances are they won't sell the same amount the next. It will then be some other state's turn to buy 10,000 and Michigan will hold steady with 10,000 one-year-olds.
Jun 05, 2003 (10:50 am)
The results of the studies are facts of the studies themselves.
That qualification was not contained in the original posting.
Jun 05, 2003 (12:35 pm)
Then why would they even offer incentives on it? If incentives aren't doing anything, drop them and make more cash.
There is a reason Ford put up the incentives.
Here's a company that rates vehicles in a unique fashion. (better than J.D. Power in my opinion.)
Check out their "Total Quality Awards". Goto - Research - Automotive - Top Quality - TQA Winners.
I like the fact they don't rate a cup holder on par with a bad tranny. I don't like the fact they let the consumer comment on safety. And I don't think "thoughtfulness" and "dealership experience" should mean much when it comes to quality as it relates to an automobile. But they do provide another tool to use when looking to buy.
#4036 of 8533 icvi, fleet sales and Escapes
Jun 05, 2003 (5:19 pm)
As this is the Escape vs CRV board. What % of those state fleet vehicles are Escapes?
You spout numbers like 10,000 and 5,000, but for sure those are not all Escapes. The report you cite doesn't indicate that any of the vehicles are Escapes or even Fords for that matter..
How do you know that fleet buyers don't buy Honda or Toyota. According to someone else here, they claim their company uses Honda's.
#4037 of 8533 icvi, vision-inc
Jun 05, 2003 (5:45 pm)
Good link. I've not heard of this company before.
They rate the Honda CRV very high, but behind the Hyundai, However they did not rate the Escape as a bad or unreliable vehicle as it was also above the average.
btw, it appears that this TQI number also is affected by the owners 'emotions and perceptions' rather just facts normally associated with true product quality.
I believe that CR reports are as much affected by these buyer 'perceptions/emotions', but CR does not seem to admit this is a factor in the numbers they gather..
Jun 06, 2003 (5:07 am)
"I like the fact they don't rate a cup holder on par with a bad tranny. I don't like the fact they let the consumer comment on safety. And I don't think "thoughtfulness" and "dealership experience" should mean much when it comes to quality as it relates to an automobile. But they do provide another tool to use when looking to buy."
I agree, and I agree with bess' comment on how the other groups allow owners to let emotions in too. I just found out the other day that some vehicles actually do worse on the CR and JD studies because they have fewer cup holders than a competing model. Why on earth would they list something like that as being a "problem"?
It's still not fact, but it seems to be a little closer. They seem to have found a way to fine tune the work of CR and JD in some ways. I didn't see their data collection methods anywhere. Do they have them on the site?
"Then why would they even offer incentives on it? If incentives aren't doing anything, drop them and make more cash."
Part of that reason is the CR-V, I don't think I've ever disagreed with that. But, an even bigger part of the reason is the Liberty. Both have very low incentives when compared to other models, but the Liberty has been putting all the others to shame in terms of sales.
The CR-V is definitely being watched closely by Ford. However, the Liberty is the real big bright dot on the radar right now and has been for the past year or so.
GM is also another reason. If Ford can't sell you an Explorer, they don't want you walking next door to the Chevy dealer to buy a TrailBlazer. They'd rather you looked at the Escape as an alternative. Lowering the price only helps that cause.
Besides, you can buy a CR-V for less than sticker (at least around here you can). They only advertise these prices in the Sunday paper so I can't show them to you, but they do exist. The Sunday before Memorial Day, which is a big day for vehicle sales, CR-V's were going for about $500 over invoice with 3.9%(might have been 4.9%) financing for 60 months. If you do the math, that's about $1000 off in addition to special financing.
I have not checked lately, but those deals may not be quite as sweet right now, but deals are still there to be had nonetheless.
#4039 of 8533 fleet sales
Jun 06, 2003 (6:30 am)
I absolutely, postively gaurantee you there isn't a Honda or Toyota owned by State of Michigan.
Heck, Detroit doesn't even have street cars anyomore. GM started making busses and the city (in order to keep GM happy) got rid of our street cars. They can now be found (still running strong) in Mexico City.
I don't think there are many Escapes in fleets. (In comparison to say a Taurus.) Although I'm sure you can rent them in most cities. And I doubt you can rent a CR-V.
I'll give fleet sales a rest.