Last post on May 14, 2003 at 5:42 AM
You are in the Pickups - Archived Discussions
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Chevrolet Silverado 2500, Chevrolet Silverado 3500, Ford F-250, Ford F-350, Dodge Ram Pickup 2500, Dodge Ram Pickup 3500, Engine, Diesel, Truck
May 07, 2002 (7:06 pm)
Judging by the literally thousands and thousands of posts in Town Hall regarding Silverado, Engine Knock, Allison, and Duramax problems I would say GM needs to work a little harder at the proving grounds before releasing a new vehicle. GM has had some better ideas lately than the competition, but it hasn't launched anything new in the last 5 years that hasn't been a POS in its first two years of infancy ranging from the vette to the Tahoe's and the Town Hall and Consumer Reports confirms it.
Just because GM outsourced a motor and trans from reputable manufacturers (finally) doesn't prove any long term quality or re-sale issues for it's new HD. Neither this motor nor this trans are identical to anything that has been on the road for years as they were specifically made for GM.
If these trucks are so good and somebody really would like one I suggest contacting dealers in Georgia where there are huge rebates on new 2001 Duramax's that dealers still have in inventory. Good luck finding an ad for a new '01 Ford or Dodge diesel.
As far as re-sale goes my recently traded '99.5 F-250 SC SD PSD with 90K miles depreciated only $8000 from what I paid for it new on trade and that was with X-plan on the new '02 PSD CC truck so they couldn't make up for the difference on the new vehicle as its price was out of their control. What else seats six, will pull virtually anything and only depreciates roughly 8 cents per mile with very high mileage in a relatively short period of time?
I'm also curious to see what the thick head gasket between iron block and aluminum head on the Duramax is going to do around 100-125K, but only time will tell.
As a matter of fact go back to you little cubicle and post again when the 1 millionth Duramax is placed in a HD. Ford placed its 1 millionth Powerstroke in the Turtle V Expedition F-550 on August 30, 1999 and they most likely will reach the second million mark by the end of this model ('02) year.
May 07, 2002 (8:50 pm)
I don't think you can find 30 complaints in Town Hall about the Duramax diesel, but I digress.
What I really wanted to interject, was the subject of torque and horsepower. In the simplest terms, torque is work, but horsepower is the time rate of doing work.
If you followed that, torque is Force times Radius, Horsepower is Torque times Rpm.
May 08, 2002 (7:02 am)
The reason everything is rating in HP is because that is the number most of us understand. If HP were king, we would have 10k rpm screemers turning out 500 hp in our trucks and tractors, but they would only be producing 263ftlbs of torque. We all know that would never get the job done. Your example of the tractor producing 235hp 2k rpm; Do you have any idea how much torque that engine is producing 2k rpm???? Try 618ftlbs!!!! Couple that with the overall gearing, a huge amount of torque is being put to the ground.
Being on the farm and working on equipment all the time, I assume you are familiar with a torque wrench and how it works. What does a torque wrench measure? How much force (work) is being applied to the nut/bolt. A dyno, the device used to measure an engines HP, works in much the same way as a torque wrench, only it uses a viscous fluid to measure forces applied. The engine attempts to turn the shaft of the dyno while the dyno attempts to shut the engine down by not letting the shaft be turned. This is where the torque of the engine is measured. Horsepower alone could never turn that shaft. Of course, you cannot have horsepower without some torque.
Torque measures how much work can be done and horsepower measures how quickly it can be done. I apologize for ever responding to Rick, I'm afraid I may have started another discussion on a long since worn out subject.
May 08, 2002 (7:56 am)
First off, the Duramax is great, have 13,000 miles on farm with mine without a lick of problems. I also know of quite a few others that have had no problems. "Although I know a guy whose neighbor works at a Chevy Dealership and they have replaced DOZENS of sets of heads and head gaskets" I WAS LAUGHING AS HE SAID THIS TO ME, HE DRIVES A POWERSTROKE, WHAT CAN I SAY.
Anyways, on the torque, horsepower debate. Our tractors have 12, 16, 18, or say 24 gears to allow us to go the proper speed in the field. One tractor for example makes 220 Horsepower at 1900 RPMs, and another tractor makes the same horsepower at 2600 RPMs. They both will pull the same load, but have different torque curves and numbers. It is the producing of a given amount of horsepower at different RPMs, and using gearing to provide equal ground speed that allows the same amount of work to be done.
Two engines of the same horsepower, one produces 600 ft lbs at 1500 RPMs, and the other produces 400 ft lbs at 1500 RPMs, the one with the 600 ft lbs, will pull 50% more than the other one at that given RPM, but both at peak HP, will pull equally.
HORSEPOWER IS MEANINGLESS UNLESS YOU KNOW THE RPM THAT IT IS PRODUCED AT AND YOU ARE AT THAT RPM (want to be at that rpm doing the work), TORQUE IS MEANINGLESS UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT RPM IT IS PRODUCED AT, WHICH ALLOWS YOU TO CALCULATE HORSEPOWER! HORSEPOWER TAKES BOTH TORQUE AND RPM INTO CONSIDERATION TO GIVE POWER AVAILABLE FOR WORK.
May 08, 2002 (8:14 am)
Basically if you had 1 gear Torque would be #1 and on the other side if you had an unlimited number of gears and RPM was not a consern HP would be #1. Last nigh I thought about it and I remembered something that helps explain torque vs Hp. Torque is Rotational force and Hp is straight line.
#133 of 207 kg11 & 26psiboost
May 08, 2002 (8:36 am)
KG11- Seems you got a problem truck. These types of trucks or cars aren't limited to the GM brand. All manufacturers of any type of product have a few that get out and have problems. Unfortunatly, people, like you, that end up with these products usually don't buy another one and spread around that they have a bad product.
Oh, and Chrysler doesn't own Mercedes. Mercedes bailed Chrysler out when there business was down in the dumps. I worked for them when that merger took affect. I a sense, it hurt Mercedes more than it helped Chrysler because now Mercedes has to take care of all the problems.
26PSIBOOST- Good luck finding huge sales on '01 Dodge Diesels? Our Ford and Dodge dealerships have their diesels marked down to close to $21,000 just to try to get rid of them. The problem with Dodge is that the new body style is hurting the heavy duty trucks. People would rather wait another year to get a new body style than get a new '01 and have the resale value drop after they redesign them.
Your trade-in value is easy to make seem higher or lower than what it should be, even if you have a fixed price. Check out the real trade-in values through Edmund's or Kelley Blue Book. Don't be fooled by your obvious inexperience. Trust me, I was fooled once when I was younger. It won't happen again to me. But I also know the car business better now.
#134 of 207 More heavy stuff...
May 08, 2002 (9:52 am)
Quadrunner500, you are close to being right on the money. Butů.
Torque is really not work, it is rotational force. Or to say it another way, it is force acting at a distance (radius).
Work is force acting through a distance (pushing on an object with 5 lbs. of force for a distance of 5 feet is 25 ft-lbs. of work).
And Power is the rate of doing work (pushing that same object 5 feet in 1 sec is 25 ft-lbs/sec or .04545455 horsepower).
And for those of you out there that are wondering why this is so important, it is because this does have relevance to owning and enjoying trucks. Trucks are about pulling, hauling, acceleration, torque, horsepower, work and cool stuff like that.
On the Duramax, GM grossly underestimated the demand for this marvelous engine so they are capacity limited. This is the reason for the long waits. They could have sold 50% more if they had the production capacity. You can be assured that they are addressing this as we speak.
#135 of 207 adunker
May 08, 2002 (3:52 pm)
My point was not that I got a problem truck ,rather that GM DID NOT "test thoroughly" before releasing this product.My truck WAS THE TEST VEHICLE.Two mechanically sound transmissions were removed from my truck because GM didn't know anything about them,and THAT'S WHAT PISSES ME OFF.
I didn't say my truck is a P.O.S. but you must admit it wasn't ready for market when it was released 3 or 4 months late.
May 09, 2002 (12:27 am)
Force equals mass times acceleration.
Work equals force times distance.
Oops! That makes you right and me wrong. Thanks for correcting!
#137 of 207 SIX-SPEEDS
Jun 17, 2002 (3:43 pm)
Im looking to buy a diesel with a six speed in it. I curently have a 97 Ram 2500 4X4 diesel, love the truck, hate the tranny (auto). Had it rebuilt at 69K and had a shift kit installed havent had any problems since, but i like the freedom of a manual. And please limit the responces between Dodge and Ford for two reasons. #1 GM is way to expensive. #2 Of all the looking i have done here in minnesota, i have yet to find a six speed in a GM.