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May 31, 2001 (7:57 am)
New to this Ford site, although I have strolled back and read the last 300 or so messages. I have found these message boards to be extremely helpful and informative, as well as entertaining... I'm still chuckling over post #17. I spent a lot of time here a year back when I bought my Silverado and learned that you can eliminate many problems people report here by taking a long, quiet test drive before you lay down your money.
We are in the market now for a new SUB as my wife's Jeep Grand Cherokee is getting old and we simply need a bigger rig. We test drove the Tahoe and it reminded me too much of my Silverado. The Denali was nice, but the monochromatic color scheme was a bit much. Besides, for a few thousand more you could get into the Escalade...so, we drove the Escapade. It was nice, lots of bells and whistles but the one we drove had a very noticeable wind noise from the front windshield. The sales re didn't believe me until he drove it at my insistence and only replied .."not to worry, we can reseal it"! Yea right. The local Cadillace dealers are in no mood to deal on these rigs as they are hard to locate here in the midwest and some even have a waiting list. We just drove a 2001 EB Expedition and liked it a lot. I have had Fords in the past and found them to be reliable so we are looking real hard at the Expedition. Seems to be a good time to buy one as every Ford dealer in the area has 8-10 on the lot and they are offering Cash Back and reduced financing incentives.
I did have a question. My wife really likes the 2nd row bucket seats with the console and it appears to come only with the Premier Group option which comes only in the Arizona beige. Am I mistaken here? My salesman was not a lot of help as he said he would have to research it.
It seems a fair price would be dealer invoice plus maybe 100-200 dollars and let them keep the holdback. I read somewhere in here that someone bought one for straight invoice and even split the holdback. Darn good negotiating! Any thoughts in this area would also be appreciated.
Sorry for the long post.
May 31, 2001 (8:27 am)
From your use of the phrase "let them keep the holdback" I think you are getting confused between holdback and rebate. There are rebates available right now. You should be able to get pretty close to invoice, if not below, and keep the rebate. If you start getting below invoice, then you are chewing into holdback. The rebate has nothing to do with the dealer, regardless of what they tell you. It is an incentive offered by the manufacturer. You should figure on getting the entire rebate. Do your best deal around invoice with them, and then subtract the rebate.
#161 of 1953 Clay: Buckets, deals, etc.
May 31, 2001 (10:45 am)
I'm the guy who split the holdback with the dealer here in Denver. That was back in January. Actually, it was their idea: they advertised "Employee Pricing", which they described as invoice minus 1/2 the holdback ($1250 on our Expy). We had to pick between the $1K rebate or 3.6% financing. We chose the financing. Saves us over $2K given the duration of the loan. Our price was invoice - $625. Not Bad!
We also took lengthy road tests of three different Expys before choosing one. There was a noticeable difference in the ride between the loaded XLT and the EB, which I found strange, since both are supposed to have the same suspension and both had 17" wheels and tires. The EB had a softer ride, in case you're wondering. The reason for the lengthy test drives was to determine if any of the trucks had the vibration problem mentioned by several owners. None of the three trucks we drove vibrated.
The 2nd row buckets have been an option on the Eddie Bauer for a couple of years. If there's a console for the second row, it must ONLY be available on the Premier Group, as I have yet to see a 2nd row console on a "normal" EB.
BTW- Choosing the 2nd row buckets means you won't have a flat floor when you fold the seats, if that matters to you. The flat floor was one of the selling points when we were choosing our new truck. The Sequoia and Tahoe 2nd row seats do not fold flat.
Lastly, in case you haven't heard, Ford has recalled all the Firestone tires on Expeditions. DO NOT leave the dealer's lot without getting non-Firestones. That is, IF the Expy you choose happens to have Firestones on it. I put Michelin tires on our Expy after the first week and was immensely impressed with the improved ride, steering and handling.
May 31, 2001 (10:57 am)
Your quite right. I do understand the difference between a holdback and a rebate...but you could never tell it from my post. Speaking of which, after re-reading my post, I think I'm the one who needs grammar lessons!
The same sales rep just called me and told me I can get that 2nd row captains chairs under a 21B option code. It doesn't appear to be a popular option as he has yet to find one in the area.
May 31, 2001 (11:09 am)
Thanks also for the reply. I made that post above prior to reading yours.
Wow...you really did get a good deal. We haven't come down to price yet with this dealer, as I haven't completely made up my mind yet on the EB, yet we are leaning heavily in that direction. They have two 2000 Navigators on the lot. I am fairly sure I could get one for about $42,500. Can't believe they still have those. I would be buying a two year old rig but I do like the looks of the darn things. He seemed real anxious to sell them. It would pencil out to about a $3000.00 difference. You "regular" guys posting here are much more knowledgable than I am. What do you think? Would it be smart to "step up" to the Navigator or would it be a wash in the long run?
Thanks again for the replys.
May 31, 2001 (11:24 am)
If you go for the Navigator, be real sure you sit in one for a while. The seats are terrible - they are completely flat and featureless. The Expy seats seem like Recaros in comparison. (Don't get me wrong, the Expy seats aren't so great either, but they are better than the Nav's)
May 31, 2001 (3:59 pm)
I agree with you on the uncomfortable seats in the NAV. As a matter of fact, that was our main complaint about the rig. Dealer blamed it on the "flow through" feature. Evidently, those things route the AC and heat through the seats. I did like the navigation system that they offer, however, I suspect it would be cheaper to buy a map! The Escalade and Denali had the most comfortable seats of all the vehicles we drove.
The EB offers pretty much the same features and my wife and I like the overall feel and looks better. I've had two F250's over the years and have gotten excellent service out of both. I would be very comfortable buying another Ford. As I understand it, the incentive program now offered runs through July 2nd, so we have a little time here to decide. I haven't heard much about the 2002 Exp, but I suspect they will make a signifigant body style and powerplant change in the near future.
#166 of 1953 clay: Just my opinion, but.....
Jun 01, 2001 (5:13 am)
I would rather have a NEW truck for less money than a two-year old one. Even with the 2nd row buckets, a new 2001 Expy shouldn't cost you more than $37-38K. The real problem with buying the Nav, even if it is still "new" is that its resale value would drop like a rock once you drove it off the lot.
After two loooong road trips, I am quite pleased with the seats in our EB. I especially like the memory feature for two drivers. Works great!
Personally, I would avoid the first year of a new model. Only time will tell whether Ford will be able to avoid repeating the past and produce a trouble-free truck in the first year after a major redesign. Check out the Sequoia topic. If the posters there are a reasonable sample of Sequoia owners, Toyota also has trouble producing trouble-free vehicles in the first year.
Let us know what you wind up buying.
Jun 01, 2001 (10:46 am)
what you say makes sense on a two year old NAV. Rumor has it the resale value on them is disappointing a lot of folk.
Interesting enough, I was at the dealer's lot this morning taking a second look at the EB Expy and right next to them was a brand new Limited Excursion with an MSRP of $500.00 less than the Expy! Go figure that one. It was a real nice rig but waay to big.
#168 of 1953 EB & XLT ride
Jun 02, 2001 (6:44 am)
Rickc5 did the EB have the load level suspension? were the tires different? Why did the ride on the eddie bauer seem softer than the XLT? other than the load level suspension the suspension suppose to be the same. I test drove an navigator one time before and was surprised the the nav rode stiffer than my XLT with 17 inch wheels.