Last post on Jul 24, 2010 at 8:52 AM
You are in the Lexus SC 430
What is this discussion about?
Lexus SC 430, Convertible
Jun 22, 2002 (8:07 am)
I own a C-320 and nothing but a pain in the neck.
I purchased it new in March 2001 and I counted 6 different problems.Water in the fog lights water in the trunk mulfunction in the fuel gage tail light problem, problem with belts,frozen front wheel.Some of the promblems they did not want to fix.I owned Acuras 2 no problems. I also own a 2002 lexus SC-430 not a single problem.
I think Benz is going to hell.Later on this year this bundle of problems is going to be traded.
#306 of 1200 whotheman - Not sure it would help
Jun 23, 2002 (10:05 am)
I have become convinced that Lexus just doesn't want to compete for the "driving" enthusiast.
I finally got an opportunity to drive a friend's two month old SC430. Although I haven't yet driven the new SL, the Lexus interior has to be right up there in terms of quality/luxury. But, IMHO, the car doesn't handle or feel nearly as precise as the BMW 530i that I am considering for this fall. And I don't think a "sport package" is going to help that much. The entire vehicle dynamics, weight, etc. were more in line with a luxury sedan than a sport coupe. Even my friend acknowledged that the SC430 wasn't much different to drive than the E430 he traded.
Lexus has certainly given Mercedes a run for it's money in the luxury segment. I just don't see any evidence that they want to take on BMW for prospective buyers like me. And perhaps there is nothing wrong with that. Amoung my mid-40's peer group, I am the only one I know that cannot bring myself to buy an automatic - even on a family sedan or SUV. So I'm the "niche" not the "masses".
Jun 23, 2002 (10:16 am)
I would agree with you completely if Lexus had decided not to offer the IS300. The fact that it was branded Lexus rather than Toyota makes me think that Lexus doesn't really know what they want to be. Maybe the IS300 was a test offering to gauge how the company feels about moving into the 'sport' side of the sport/luxury business.
Jun 23, 2002 (7:41 pm)
Sphinx, are you saying that the 1992-2000 SC300/SC400 weren't sporty? From sporty luxocoupe to entry-level sports sedan and overindulgent luxoconvertible. Lexus's image is fine.
#309 of 1200 sphinx99 / verozahl
Jun 24, 2002 (3:41 am)
Sphinx - Personally, I don't view the IS300 as a serious sports coupe that Lexus intended to compete head to head with BMW. Whether it was Lexus own advertising or the majority of drivers of IS300's that I see around town, it appears like its a "20-something chick car". That may compete with a small segment of the market for a 3-series coupe, but not much. If I'm not mistaken, Lexux didn't even offer a manual in it when it was first introduced.
Verozahl - I won't answer for Sphinx, but in my opinion the SC300/400 may have been "sporty" Lexus offerings, but they were not serious driving enthusiasts cars. Again, if I'm not mistaken, only the SC300 was offered with a manual. My former boss had an SC400 for 5 years and, although he loved it for quality and luxury, he now owns a 528i that he claims is more fun to drive (even with its 4 doors and 100 fewer horsepower).
When the GS400 first came out, I thought perhaps Lexus was finally moving into serious driver's territory. But the suspension was so luxo-oriented that Lexus had to print a warning label that the optional 17" tires might last less than 7,500 miles under more spirited driving. Apparantly, the body roll tendencies of the car was eating up the side walls of the tires. Again, I have an associate who traded a GS for a 540i 6-speed and has never looked back.
My point is that I agree with Verozahl that Lexus image is fine. They make some of the best near and full luxury cruisers out there. And their quality control appears well ahead of Mercedes as of late. They just don't make a car that excites my 40-something driving senses. So be it. I'll buy their stock, just not their cars.
Jun 24, 2002 (4:21 am)
I try to avoid driver demographic as the benchmark for a car's sport-oriented nature because in some markets the demographic can be very misleading. Of the many BMW owners I have met around here I have yet to meet one who bought his or her car because of its "sport" nature. Without fail, all of them bought them for the badge appeal, build quality, looks and luxury content. If I didn't know more about the engineering and had to go off of sample driver alone, BMW would be a non-sport brand. With that in mind, I threw out the IS300 because I do believe that it has all the underpinnings and mannerisms of a top-notch sports sedan. It's quick and nimble, extremely responsive, and provides an amazing amount of road feedback to the driver. You feel every bump in the road. Some would say that based on athleticism alone it's the best sports sedan out there - even better than the 3-series. And the fact that it has the luxury of a Corolla while wearing the Lexus badge makes me raise an eyebrow. I agree that Lexus does one thing extremely well, and they have focused on this one thing almost exclusively.
However, I am not sure whether even Lexus is sure whether that one thing is enough, and the IS300 is evidence that they're thinking about something else.
verozahl - I don't have much seat time in SCs, but from what I have read they tend to be heavy tourers that focus on luxury over sportiness, as with most Lexi.
#311 of 1200 I still don't see why......
Jun 24, 2002 (5:23 am)
Lexus can't give us a "fourth option", a Sport Package, with performance tires, better anti-roll bars, upgraded spring and shocks, and a tighter steering rack. That's what options are for! To prevent alienating drivers who desire a certain feel from the car you make. This car is obviously gorgeous and luxurious, but it is missing the one thing that would make it a legend. The ability to truly bond with it's owner, not just impress him, or win his admiration. What is the "Passionate Pursuit of Perfection" mean if they short their most passionate design? Give me a car that wants to be loved over a lovely car anytime......
#312 of 1200 sphinx99 & whotheman
Jun 24, 2002 (10:42 am)
Sphinx - you caught me committing a cardinal sin - expressing an opinion about the IS300 without ever having driven one. Time permitting, I will remedy that shortcoming - albeit the car doesn't appeal to me for a variety of other reasons (style, extremely tight back seat, etc.) Whether the IS300 really can match the 330is as a driver's car is questionable, but I will keep an open mind.
Whotheman - back to the topic - the SC430. You ask "why not?", I ask "why?". I am not sure Lexus will sell that many more SC430's by offering to equip them with a sport package. IMHO, you can't take a luxury car that has a highly refined "Buick" ride and handling dynamics and turn it into a sports car by adding a sports package. That may sound a little harsh, but I think it would really need to be designed ground up with a different philosophy and approach, for the SC430 (or any car) to appeal to the true driving enthusiast.
Lexus has elected to let Mercedes, Audi, BMW and even Honda invest heavily in their racing divisions. They make "Super Toyotas". Nothing wrong with that, since they do it as good or better than anyone else. And as a highway tourer, the SC430 appears to be right up there with the best. Just not as much fun to drive as my S2000. But a lot quieter.
Jun 24, 2002 (11:18 am)
...Go-Karts are also fun to drive. It depends what one wants. I for one, will take the SC....
Jun 24, 2002 (4:42 pm)
I know the SC300/400 weren't "sports cars." I want a luxosport coupe with an automatic. Thus, I either want a Subaru SVX or a Lexus SC300.
My other choice would be a Prelude or a 240SX. Driver's coupes. Maybe an old MR2, too.
And then, you have the Supras, Z-Cars, and RX-models of the world.
SC430 is just another luxoconvertible with strange looks, and it's not as sporty as the Benzes it envies. It's a little too Lexus for Lexus, that is, it doesn't do much for Lexus image other than say "hey! we wanna be Benz!"
I'm not aware of any Corollas with Lexi badging. Altezzas, Integras, and Primeras are not Corollas, Civics, or Sentras.