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Honda Civic Si vs. VW GTI - READ ONLY
523 messages, Last post on Aug 14, 2003 at 8:03 AM
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What is this discussion about? Honda Civic, Volkswagen GTI, Coupe, Hatchback
#330 of 523 But aren't your anecdotes here by gee35coupe
Dec 05, 2002 (8:19 pm)
just as valid as this onehttp://www.myvwlemon.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCookie=true
and
http://redstorm91.myforum.net/index.php3?more=432
and
http://www.carsurvey.org/viewcomments_review_16816.html
or check any other reliability survey.
You buy a VW you take your chances.
Si's have ABS,and EBD, side airbags are available if you want em(the only option), cruise, keyless, and 5 star safety front and 4 star side without side airbags. So much for tin can.
How is the GTI a stellar success if VW can't sell more cars than Hyundai anymore? They sell more Civics than they sell VW's as a whole.
Like I said in another forum. Anecdotes mean nothing when they aren't based on fact. I can show proof that VW's are NOT reliable, the SI is not a "tin can", the SI has reasonable content at it's price point especially since it has only one option, there is a significant number of horror stories littering the web about VW's in general, in fact the Beetle is a used car "to avoid" according to CR, and the link above shows VW's reliability as lacking compared to most.
Here's another link from the site...
Direct comparison to Honda. Of course the latest data is 1998 but I doubt the such a large divide will be made up that quickly.
http://www.autooninfo.net/ReliabilityPercentranksVolkswagen.htm
Thank god for simple basic cars that seem to have just as many features as the awesome great VW's. I think I would rather turn on my own windshield wipers and adjust my own heat.
#332 of 523 LOL by rickrover
Dec 05, 2002 (10:43 pm)
You Honduh guys crack me up - This could go on forever - you keep believing your fantasy about VW's - and I'll keep enjoying my dependable VW's this from an actual VW owner. Most all the negative stuff I read here on VW's is from non VW owners - your envy is showing.wow - you can get side airbags as an option on the tin can civic and honda's top line EX V6 has curtain air bags "available" a $15k GL Golf has them all standard - along with ABS, traction control etc, etc all standard and VW doesn't have to give them away at fire sale prices or make cutting edge safety items "available as the only option" - LOL - path-et-ic
FYI - as for your resale blah, blah, blah eariler:
"Volkswagen was ranked #1 among mass-market manufacturers for best residual value in the Automotive Lease Guide's 2002 Residual Value Awards." Do you think it's because they don't have to sell them for below invoice to move them off the lots like the ugly tin can SI's??? Or subsidize leases like Accords?
The GTI sells on it's merits - the SI (and most other Honduh's) sells because it's so heavily discounted - resale on an SI will be a joke.
#333 of 523 What does the GTI have the Si does not by moparbad
Dec 05, 2002 (11:29 pm)
180HPStandard side airbags. Standard curtain airbags.
Standard full size spare tire.
Standard floor mats.
Standard ASR and optional ESP.
4 yr. 50,000 mile b2b warranty.
Heated mirrors standard.
16" wheels standard with 17" optional.
Heated seats optional.
Standard stereo that is much better than the Si's.
CD player and cassette player standard.
Armrest standard.
Cargo hooks in the hatch area. (nice to have)
Full carpet in hatch area instead of plastic on the sides like the Si.
Gas struts on the hood instead of a cheap prop rod.
Storage areas for first aid kit and 6 disc cd changer.
Wide selection of aftermarket parts and accessories available directly from VW.
1.8T is a Wards 10 best engine.
There are so many extra items that make the GTI stand out in a comparision to the Si. When you own a VW you take for granted these features.
Unfortunately, the VW dealer network is TERRIBLE. Quality of materials is excellent but the reliability of components is below average.
My personal experience owning a VW Golf and VW Jetta was excellent as far as relibility. But the poor dealership service and the maintenance requirements made me so disgusted that I am now driving an Si.
If the GTI were the same price as an Si I would put up with the VW aggravations and would have kept my Golf. VW needs to fix their dealer network ASAP.
#334 of 523 moparbad, you forgot a few things by 204meca
Dec 06, 2002 (12:32 am)
that are standard on the GTI:Auto down & UP both windows.
5 yr 60K warranty (may be only as good as dealer).
16" wheels, though most GTIs seem to have 17"
Telescopic steering wheel.
Both front seats can easily be raised or lowered.
LARGE, illuminated in glove box.
ALL switches are illuminated.
Remote release of the hatch.
Easy rear seat entry system for both front seats, with memory.
Illuminated vanity mirrors.
Lights in the rear seat passenger compartment.
Auto door locking
8 mpg (not everyone likes this Heated seats as option (seems to be on all GTIs).
Adjustable headrests including articulation headrests (the Sis are NOT at allcomfy).
Foglights.
Lower insurance rates according to AllState
Better EPA highway mileage
31 v 30 (many GTI owners report 35 mpg highway). Sadly, the Si is a stripper in comparison? What can't Honda give us a few simple more simple creature comforts like armrests & seat heigh adjustment (both were on the 00 EX)? No wonder I am leaning toward the GTI despite having owned 5 great Honda civics since 1985.
#335 of 523 Rickover, can you explain by 204meca
Dec 06, 2002 (12:39 am)
why I can find 3 used 02 GTIs for sale in my small city & 6 more within 100 miles in the Atotrader, but no 02 Si anywhere? This is especially unnerving if it is true that there are fewer 2002 GTI were made. That said, there may be no used Si because many of them have not left the dealer's lots yet.I love the performance & features of the GTI, but a few facts like the above still make me nervous. If I finally actually get up enough courage to purhase a GTI I hope & pray that it is as reliable as yours has been (so far)!
#336 of 523 by gotenks243
Dec 06, 2002 (7:40 am)
"why I can find 3 used 02 GTIs for sale in my small city & 6 more within 100 miles in the Atotrader, but no 02 Si anywhere? "One important thing to keep in mind is that '02 GTIs have been on sale since last September at the normal model-year changeover, whereas '02 SIs didn't get to dealers until March '02-ish. Basically, the GTI has been out longer, and the propensity to sell increases as time goes on, not to mention there's more out there (should be anyway). I remember earlier this year hearing of people selling their early '02 GTIs in favor of the 337, new MINIs, and the like. There's quite a few people still trying to sell used 337s for over the original sticker too. People will always find a reason to sell anything, it's nothing to get unnerved about.
Mike
#338 of 523 VW re gee35 by moparbad
Dec 06, 2002 (11:40 am)
quote gee -Wheres's VW? Oh yeah at the bottom.You stated the list was in alphabetical order, so yes VW is going to be at the bottom.
Your post indicates that number of vehicles sold is more important than the vehicle.
In 2001 Volkswagen delivered a total of 865,500 Golf vehicles to its customers.
On June 25th 2002 the 21,517,415th Golf was manufactured. Thats right, 21 million.
In the US in November of 2002 VW sold about 30,000 cars and Honda sold 100,000.
Since Honda sells 3 times as many vehicles does this mean they are better. If so then that must mean GM is the best because they sold 300,000 plus in November.
Is the number of problems per 100 vehicles the most important factor in vehicle purchasing?
Must not be since VW is experiencing record sales month after month and year after year in the US.
#339 of 523 JD Power APEAL by moparbad
Dec 06, 2002 (11:50 am)
http://www.jdpa.com/studies/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=563&CatID=1Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout.
2001 Sporty Segment- winner is VW GTI
quote- Volkswagen models continue to do well in the study, with the Beetle setting the APEAL standard for compact cars every year since its introduction in 1998. The Jetta ranks highest for the third year in a row in the entry midsize car segment, and the GTI ranks most appealing in the sporty car segment.
2001 winners in compact segment were VW Beetle and VW Golf.
In midsize VW Jetta
VW's are recognized for design and execution as well as being recognized for being below average in quality.
Where is Honda in this list? Only the Odyssey is present.
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