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Honda Civic, Volkswagen GTI, Coupe, Hatchback
Oct 24, 2002 (7:53 am)
how far people will go to try to prove a point don't it? A 1.6% failure rate is dream material for most makes. That's less than 2 out of a hundred. I'll take those odds.
I'm inclined to agree with Mopar on the England built Hondas. But then again the U.S. has been building Accords since 1982 and Civics not long thereafter. In fact the Accord coupe is built only in the U.S. and I've never heard of them having any problems more than the sedans.
The Swindon plant has been building cars since 1992. If they didn't meet standards I don't think they would be sending the cars to their most important market. At least we aren't getting Accords built in Taiwan yet.
Oct 26, 2002 (9:30 am)
I happen to think a Vette is a huge oversized pile of fiberglass garbage. It may perform well - but so what? My perception of the typical Vette owner is some old fart going through a mid life crisis - automotive Viagra. The interior layout for the most part continues it's plastic garbage theme, cheap switchgear and material content. If I won one in a contest it would be in the classifieds the next day. I rarely see Vette's at any type of track event - their owners don't seem to buy them for their performance - Chevy should slap a little V6 under the hood of most of them- most owners would never notice.
I like fast little hatchbacks - My modified GTI isn't as straight line fast as a Z06 Vette by any stretch - but I'd much rather take it to the track or AutoX than a Vette - most any GTI, Miata or Civic with some minor suspension mods will toast a Z06 Vette on an AutoX course - what a joke. Now that I've typed "Vette" so many times I have to go wash my hands.
I'm back - all better now.
As for the GTI's "severe window regulator problem" -
NEWS FLASH: VW redesigned the window regulators months ago - the problem with the old ones were the nylon clips would break - the new ones have metal clips. VW is replacing window regulators on cars out of warranty for no charge. My dealer replaced my window regulators with the new style ones at my 10k service even though I never had a problem with the old ones. I've never had a problem with my GTI at all.
All late 02 and 03 Golfs, GTI's and Jettas have the new regulators.
Now that the window regulator problem has been fixed I'd expect the reliability on these cars to move into better than average territory like the Passat.
Oct 26, 2002 (5:40 pm)
My comparison was supposed to be very tongue in cheek. The "severe window regulator problems" was a reference to the overly big deal that everybody makes about the VW's "reliability problems", not my own personal perception.
Auto-X is basically made for short wheelbase cars with low power. Don't get me wrong, it looks like a lot of fun, and definitely takes a lot of skill, but even a Ferrari isn't going to be a natural at it, because they are too big. Go ahead and modify a GTI (or any of its competitors) until the sky caves in, and they'll be hard pressed to touch a Vette in its natural environment (track).
You can insult the Vette all day, but that doesn't mean that it isn't the finest performing car under $100,000. And to me, performance comes before cheap interior plastics. I mean, hey, why do you think people buy WRX's? The interior of those suck, and the seats are mush, but they sure can move.
Oct 29, 2002 (12:16 pm)
Good points - something about a Vette I've never liked - it's so huge and reeks of cheapness plus the typical Vette driver doesn't seem to have any fun with it - you are right about the performance though nothing can beat it for the $$. Plus they are a great bargain as a used car. I still wouldn't consider one.
The WRX is a great car - I considered one when I got the GTI. They had just come out and the hype and price premiums were at their height and the WRX wagon is essentially a hatchback.
I'm thinking the Golf R32 will be the best fit for me - European fit and finish, six speed 240 HP and all wheel drive for $25k - right in there with the WRX. All I have to do is tweak it to 300 HP. A fast, excellent handling, performance oriented all wheel drive hatchback is my definition of the perfect sports car -
Oct 29, 2002 (5:42 pm)
The Vette is bound to have cheap touches because it has 405HP for less than $45,000. A used one is an even better deal. It's not on par with a BMW, Porsche, or MB but neither is the price.
Oct 29, 2002 (6:17 pm)
rickrover - If it's all it's cracked up to be, the R32 is going to be a truly awesome car.
anonymousposts - Are you talking about interior, or performance? I don't think that many people have gone comparing the Vette to any Benz. And no car built by any of those makers (excluding $100k+ cars) matches the Vette's performance.
Oct 29, 2002 (8:17 pm)
Now that you mention it - the Vette is kind of in a class by itself, the new Viper is a lot more like a Vette now but it's $80k. Not much out there to compare a Vette to.
For the $50k range I'd go for a BMW M3 coupe maybe with SMG and not much else option wise.
Oct 29, 2002 (11:04 pm)
I want to test drive the M3 SMG, but I think I would probably get a stick. Not sure though. Wow, were those two really hypothetical sentences.
I don't know which car I would get, but they are definitely both fast enough to get me in trouble. You know, I was wondering, how does a person with a car like that not feel frusterated all the time? You can't even run through the first 3 gears without being way over the speed limit.
#274 of 523 Not on par w/ BMW, Porsche or MB?? The vette??
Oct 30, 2002 (5:14 am)
A blanket statement like that is not winning you any points.
Who would take a 3 series (325i, 330i not M3) over a Vette?? Not even the Z06, but a regular vette? It is better if you mention which Bummer you are referring to.
If you frequest Porsche boards, you'll know hardcore, diehard Porsche fans do not consider the Boxster a true Porsche. The Boxster is like an illegitimate child or blacksheep of the family. You have to take care of it, but you don't like to acknowledge it if you don't have to.
Any Mercedes. The C230 is a joke! The interior is about on par w/ the prev. gen Neon! The C240 and C320 is a little better, but the interior is about on par w/ a Vette and performance comparison, need I say anymore?
People who sees a Bummer (no matter what model, trim, year etc) and says "Wow! You drive a Bummer". Same goes for Lexus or MB. Don't they realize some minivans (Honda), SUVs (Toyota, Ford) cost about what the prices are for 3 series, C class and at times more! But when you see someone pulls up in a brand spanking new Odyssey, it doesn't seem to impress them as much as someone who pulls up w/ an ES300/IS300, C230/C240/C320, 325i/330i. I guess these are the same people who are worried about their own cars and not buying the higher trim level
Oct 30, 2002 (12:34 pm)
That's exactly why I like my little GTI so much. I get to explore it's limits without the fear of getting thrown in jail - which could easily happen exploring the limits of an M3. Plus I'm not all paranoid of the GTI like I would be an M3. A door ding or rock chip isn't the end of the world in the GTI.