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Stop here! Let's talk about brakes

1867 messages,  Last post on Nov 26, 2009 at 6:20 PM

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What is this discussion about? Brakes


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#1806 of 1867
Re: Both sides of the "axle" at the same time [wtd44] by wlbrown9
Aug 21, 2008 (9:42 am)
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Replying to: wtd44 (Aug 20, 2008 4:42 pm)

The Jeep GC had (IMHO) defective rotors and calipers. '99 & 00' Jeep GC rotors 'warped'. D/C refused to fix after 17K miles on the 00'. I paid less than $100 for generic rotors from AutoZone that did not warp from there until we got rid of it at 70K miles. The only time they warpped was when the defective rotors did not release and the brakes heated way up, burned finger just testing to see if there was heat buildup. When they cooled down, the warpage went away. There was actually a TSB from Jeep about the rotors and calipers after I had fixed the problem. The problem with the calipers was the slide pins would get dirty and not release. You could clean and grease every 5-10K miles to avoid that or replace them with a different model that could cure the problem.
 
And yes, I got rid of the Jeep before the extended warranty expired so someone else could pay when it's self distruction continued.
#1807 of 1867
Re: [wlbrown9] by wtd44
Aug 21, 2008 (11:06 am)
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Replying to: wlbrown9 (Aug 21, 2008 9:42 am)

We kept our 2004 Jeep GC in the family for 4 years, got some 23K miles out of the original front rotors, changed just the front to NAPA rotors and pads, then traded it off at 60K for a new 2009 Pontiac Vibe AWD. My only "bad luck" at the end was that I had to replace the original rear pads at the last moment to make the trade. We also have a 2007 Jeep GC in the family. We bought it new, and now it has close to 15K on it. No brake problems so far. In 2005 the JGC was a new, updated model, so we hope the old brake problems are over for Jeep. After reading your post and several before it, I am now wondering if the problem might have been the composition of the original pads more than the quality of the original rotors.
#1808 of 1867
Re: [wtd44] by wlbrown9
Aug 22, 2008 (12:55 pm)
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Replying to: wtd44 (Aug 21, 2008 11:06 am)

On the 99'-04' Jeep GC it seemed to be quality of the rotors as well as issues with the calipers not releasing. The calipers on our '00 did not release one day. I went and traded vehicles with my wife and drove that one home. The rotors got extremely hot and got a lot of shaking from them warping. Once they cooled down they were fine...these were replacement rotors from Autozone, not the original rotors. The original rotors warped without getting nearly that hot.
 
Jeep brake pads did suck (along with Nissan and Ford). These pads shed brake dust on your wheels so even a few miles after a cleanup, the wheels would be dirty again. My Isuzu and GMC do not have that problem.
#1809 of 1867
Re: [wlbrown9] by wtd44
Aug 22, 2008 (5:00 pm)
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Replying to: wlbrown9 (Aug 22, 2008 12:55 pm)

I suspect that there's a movement in the automotive industry toward better and better braking systems. And if so, it's about time!
#1810 of 1867
Older cars brake failure... coincidence? by ny540i6
Aug 31, 2008 (9:06 am)
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Looking for opinions from the board....
 
I have had the following happen to me twice in the last few months with older vehicles, so I'm wondering whether the common denominator (me) is the problem.
 
One of my practices when I have to drive an unfamiliar car, especially in the wet or snow, is to get a sense of what the vehicle would do if I had to brake suddenly. I do this by getting up to about 40 mph and applying the brakes firmly - not putting it into a slide or anything, but enough to be aware of whether it pulls to one side, locks up etc. My feeling is that the knowledge might be helpful in an emergency.
 
In recent months I've experienced brake failures after doing this in two vehicles: a 16 year old Dodge van, sporadically maintained, with 75,000 miles on the clock, and a 13 year old Ford Explorer, also poorly maintained, with 134,000 miles on it.
 
When the mechanic got both on the lift the lines were corroded, rubber rotted etc, and the failure was diagnosed as "could happen at any time, parts worn out".
 
Both vehicles are driven by the stereotypical "little old lady." I know that the Dodge is still on the original brakes, I surely doubt that there has ever been an adventure past 60 mph in either.
 
So my question: Given those conditions, is it possible that my "stressing" the system could have been enough to blow things up?
#1811 of 1867
Re: Older cars brake failure... coincidence? [ny540i6] by paisan
Aug 31, 2008 (9:10 am)
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Replying to: ny540i6 (Aug 31, 2008 9:06 am)

Yup. Brake fluid in any car should be FLUSHED (totally replaced) every 2 years because it is hydroscopic, which means it absorbs moisture. This moisture in the lines can lead to air pockets when overheating the fluid and then brake failure. The moisture in the lines can also corrode the lines from the inside out.
 
-mike
#1812 of 1867
Re: Older cars brake failure... coincidence? [ny540i6] by ruking1
Aug 31, 2008 (9:19 am)
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Replying to: ny540i6 (Aug 31, 2008 9:06 am)

Yes and the wider implications are pretty scary. If one can look at the braking system as a "chain," the chain is only as strong as the weaker to weakest link/s.
 
So I guess the real first line of defense is to keep things maintained (aka CLEAN). In the process of doing that, you are actually LQQKING at the sub system/s being cleaned and have the opportunity to catch things before they become major, or in this example TRAGIC.
 
Off topic but demonstrates the concept; I recently discovered two worn/frayed aux belts (runs A/C compressor and starter- so nothing unsafe) on a Toyota Landcruiser with 95,000 miles, in the process of washing and inspecting the engine.
#1813 of 1867
Re: Older cars brake failure... coincidence? [ruking1] by ny540i6
Aug 31, 2008 (9:41 am)
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Replying to: ruking1 (Aug 31, 2008 9:19 am)

OK, so here's the thing (to both you and paisan) - neither of these vehicles belongs to me, no is maintained by me - and there are a ton of these rolling around out there.
 
I don't feel that I owe the owners any money - the evidence indicates that the systems had been falling apart for quite some time. In fact, I kinda feel that they almost owe me a thank you - trust me, it was better that I be the one driving when the brake light came on and the pedal fell!
#1814 of 1867
Re: Older cars brake failure... coincidence? [ny540i6] by paisan
Aug 31, 2008 (10:23 am)
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Replying to: ny540i6 (Aug 31, 2008 9:41 am)

Why were you driving them if you didn't own them? Are you a mechanic? Are they friend's cars? I think if they are friends they owe you, if they aren't I'm not sure why you would be driving their cars!
 
-mike
#1815 of 1867
Re: Older cars brake failure... coincidence? [paisan] by ny540i6
Aug 31, 2008 (3:30 pm)
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Replying to: paisan (Aug 31, 2008 10:23 am)

Part time repo man
 
No, in both cases these were friends that asked me to do them a favor - the Dodge's owner and her husband were on vacation, and asked me to use it to pick them up at the airport because of their ton of luggage, and the Exploder's owner needed an "extra long, extra plush" mattress dropped of on college move in day for a kid.

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